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Romans 7 and 8 without confusing verses

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klutedavid

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not under law said:
I don't like to get drunk, sorry. If you can show me where I wrote that sin is only transgressing the things mentioned, please do
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Getting drunk is not in the law. So someone that follows the law of Moses can get drunk.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Paul addresses that problem:

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And so does Peter:
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

It is so very important to stay in the Spirit and not quench Him. Some people believe it is impossible, and that we go in and out of the Spirit. Well, if you like the taste of vomit...
 
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not under law

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klutedavid said:
Getting drunk is not in the law. So someone that follows the law of Moses can get drunk.
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Applicable law is written in the heart and mind by the Spirit of the living God, and is not limited to, not commiting murder, adultery, coveting etc Do you call that following the law of Moses?
 
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Hawkins

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In a nutshell, Law is something enforced to the extent that you cannot break even once. For example, if you kill someone then you are dead under Law. Another example is, if you watch the porn movies or pictures, you are pretty much dead under Law. If you have to control yourself sometimes, especially when you are still away from God/Christ, it may be like a curse in order not to break the Law once. If you choose to give up, then it won't make a difference whether you watch it for once or 1000 times. You are already dead anyway.

In the New Covenant on the other hand, everything is in the form of Jesus Christ's commands or teaching. They are not enforced as Law which you cannot break for even once. You may not be dead even break it multiple times, as in the end the judgment right is in the hands of Jesus Christ the Judge. But it by no means says that you don't need to struggle in fighting sins. It only means you are given chance to go through a process to overcome sins, not by controlling with your own effort, but relying on faith in God and Jesus Christ to do so.

You can fall, but you need to stand up. Fall again then stand up again, till you can stand tough in Christ. It never means you can fall and fall forever.
 
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Der Alte

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But for this fact Peter might have had a copy of some of Paul's epistles, it is highly unlikely that any average person did. So they had to depend on their leader reading to them and maybe they could remember part of it until the next time. How much of Paul's writings have you memorized?
.....Unlike the Christians of Paul and Peter's day most people today have multiple copies of the NT including Paul's writings on their devices including phones. We can read all of Paul's writings, in context, and have a much better understanding than most of the early Christians could.
.....As for understanding the NT. I started learning to speak Greek, in Germany, the year of Sputnik 1, about 7 years before I became a Christian, and studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level 2 decades later. I have BDB, Hebrew, and BDAG, Greek, both top notch lexicons in hardback and digital. So I am certain there is nothing you can correct me on.
It is more likely that you are the one following the mistakes of those before you. I believe the ball is in your court.
 
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klutedavid

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not under law said:
Applicable law is written in the heart and mind by the Spirit of the living God, and is not limited to, not commiting murder, adultery, coveting etc Do you call that following the law of Moses?
Click to expand...
I believe the law written on our hearts is the law of Christ, written by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The only outstanding debt I have to God; is to love others as He has loved us.
 
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not under law

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klutedavid said:
I believe the law written on our hearts is the law of Christ, written by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The only outstanding debt I have to God; is to love others as He has loved us.
Click to expand...
Well I guess we would agree, love fulfils the law of Christ(Gal6:2)
I guess we would also agree let no debt remain outstanding apart from loving others.
So where we may disagree should not be so important, hope you would agree.
Which law is written in the mind and placed on the heart? Being a simple minded person, I base my belief on Rom3:20:
Through the law we become conscious of sin.
So anything I could do that would make me conscious I had committed sin in my heart and mind if I did it, is law I would consider to be written in my mind and placed on my heart.
IE
If a believer stole something, would they only be conscious of sin in respect they did not love as they should, or, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they stole? My guess is, most would be conscious of sin specifically because they stole something.
If a believer committed adultery, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they committed the act of adultery, or would they only be conscious they sinned because they failed to love as they should? I am sure most would specifically be conscious of sin in respect of committing the act of adultery. I do not limit the law placed within you to law that was engraved in stone. But as the law placed within you is fulfilled by loving others, and there we would agree, I doubt there is anything to really argue/debate about
God Bless
 
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CharismaticLady

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I know there are some (not all) who believe that their carnal nature is stronger than the power of the Holy Spirit, and do not believe that through walking in the Spirit they can achieve sinlessness, let alone perfection. But at least make your election sure so you will never stumble/sin.

I have not edited out any of these verses of 2 Peter 1. Learn...

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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