Romans 5:13

[Singing Bush]

Howdy ya'll. I was curious as to what you all thought of the verse Romans 5:13, specifically the latter half though I'm sure much the whole chapter and book of Romans may need be referenced for proper understanding. Thanks.

 

[CharlesYTK]

Howdy ya'll. I was curious as to what you all thought of the verse Romans 5:13, specifically the latter half though I'm sure much the whole chapter and book of Romans may need be referenced for proper understanding. Thanks.

The passage is about the sinful nature of the flesh and the total effectiveness of Messiahs sacrifice to remove the penalty of sin for all ages. He is sufficient. In verse 13 Paul is discussing how Torah, Gods instruction or teaching, defines sin so that we know what is sin. In 1John 3 it is made clear:
3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure. 4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah—indeed, sin is violation of Torah.

Anything that diminishes Gods Glory is sin. Torah is Gods instruction to man so that we know how to glorify God though our lives. When we fail to successfully follow these directions Gods glory tht is to be shown through us is diminished and that is sin. Torah works sort of like this, Heat might be defined as the presence of latent energy in a substance. Hot verse cold is sort of arbitrary. We might say that when it is 80 degrees outside it is hot, when it is 50 degrees out it is cold. Yet a man from Florida will say, 80 is not hot, and a man from Alaska will say 50 is not cold. So a standard is needed to define what is hot and what is cold. In the case of Torah, God sets a standard for us what is righteous and holy and gives Glory to God, and what is unholy, unrighteous and takes away from the Glory of God.

Paul says in Ro 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The Greek word for "END" here is "Telos" and it means the taget at which something is aimed, or the goal. It does not mean the abolishion or termination. So a better translation for this verse is:
4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.

 

[daveleau]

The passage references Adam and the Original Sin. So, this is a major thing we must keep in mind during exegesis of this verse.

The Greek that is translated as impuned means "written down in a scroll". Men were not held accountable for the sins they committed during the time from Adam to Moses. There was sin and sin was committed, but the sin that covered all men was the sin of Adam. There is a transition from the fall until Jesus. At the Fall, all men were covered with the sin of Adam. A transitional period of the Law was established that was a guide for men. Then finally, a 180 degree change occurs (or reoccurs if you consider the Fall as a 180 degree turn) when Jesus is crucified. At this time men were covered by the Blood of Jesus if they so choose. But, what this verse discusses is the fact that men were not held accountable to sin but were all covered by the sin of Adam. Grace was the only way of salvation, as it is today.

God bless,
Dave

 

[Singing Bush]

Hmmm.... well thank you both for your thoughts. I'm much appreciative.

 

[davidoffinland]

The passage references Adam and the Original Sin.

From Finland.

From another perspective, this may not refer to original sin because in Jewish & Messianic Jewish thinking there is no such thing as "original sin".

First of all, the passage talks about sin in a sense whether there is "consiousness of sin" and Paul drives this home in Rom 7:13 that sin might be seen as "utterly sinful." So in one way the law shows the sin, and by seeing the sinful act horrible..repentance should follow. Paul is saying that if there is no law...no sin. This is way the Law/Torah is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good especially if it is used right is serves to fput to death the deeds of the flesh. The flesh through the fall of Adam has become the battle-ground for the passions and lusts to rise-up and war against the Spirit.

Secondily, this may be a great comfort to many as it was to me. The Jewish concept of original sin does not exist but the concept of "yetzer-ha ra"..the inclination toward evil or bad, and "Yetzer-ha tob"...the inclination toward good. This goes way back to the beginnings of mankind and to Abel and Cain. See what is happening in Gen 4:1-8 when finally Cain kills Abel. The LORD confronts Cain in v 6...then look what he says, "If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

I mentioned this may be a great comfort. Why? Many christians are down-right depressed in their christian lives because of the circular argument that "nothing" in them is good and everything is bad. I have meet many who are trapped into this kind of thinking as I was many years ago. So the comfort of seeing how Jewish believers thinking about even the concept of sin was a turning point.

Shalom for now,
David.
]

 

[Rafael]

I have to say I like your version David of Finland. I find it comforting that Paul struggled with sin in chapter 7 the same as I do. As the Old Testament asks, "can the leopard change his spots?", neither can man escape the old nature of Adam and death without Jesus and the grace God has given us in Him - to change according to the new nature we have through Him.

Here's the New Living translation with in context of the two scriptures to either side of it. Is there anything not understandable or wrong in its translation?

Romans 13:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13 Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. And though there was no law to break, since it had not yet been given,
14 they all died anyway—even though they did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. What a contrast between Adam and Christ, who was yet to come!

Jer 13:23 Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you always do evil.

 

[JohnJones]

Rom 5:13 -- Rom 7:9
bar mitzvah?

 

[Colossians]

Torah is Gods instruction to man so that we know how to glorify God though our lives. When we fail to successfully follow these directions Gods glory tht is to be shown through us is diminished and that is sin. The law does not apply to Christians. "ye are not under the law" Rom 6:14.
(Notice the word "not" before "under": it is there for a reason.)