Romans 10:13, and Matthew 7: 21--23

[Look Homeward Anglican]

What do these passages mean? One one hand, we hear that whoever calls shall be saved -- and then we read that some who call will not enter heaven. Who is referred to in Matthew 7:21, that will not enter?

Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."


Matthew 7:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

What do these passages mean? One one hand, we hear that whoever calls shall be saved -- and then we read that some who call will not enter heaven. Who is referred to in Matthew 7:21, that will not enter?

Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."


Matthew 7:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Context, context, context. Specific scriptures are not isolated from the rest of scripture. Let's look at a bigger slice of the Romans 10 passage shall we? i'll bold the appropriate parts.

5) For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6) But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11) For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13) For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 10:5-13 ESV, emphasis by CDL​

What you see is that confession with the mouth is tied inseparably to belief.

The particlar verse you cite is actually a quotation of Joel 2:32, which also has something interesting to say:

32) And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.

Joel 2:32 ESV, emphasis by CDL​

It follows that believing and confessing is tied into the Lord's calling. One who is not called will not believe. (that's true whether one is a Calvinist, or Arminian, or a Catholic holding to St. Thomas Aquinas' anthropology).

Let's now look at the Matthew 7 passage, adding the previous section:

15) "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16) You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17) So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18) A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.19) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20) Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

21) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22) On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23) And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; departfrom me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Matthew 7:15-23 ESV, emphasis by CDL​

The Matthew passage is speaking of those who claim to be something that they're not. They claim to have done all of these works in Jesus' name, yet Jesus himself calls them workers of lawlessness. If one looks at the CONTEXT of these passages, the meaning becomes clear.

May i ask why you as a Catholic would ask questions such as this in a Reformed Forum? Mind you, i'm not casting any doubt on your sincerity, i'm merely curious. It would seem that you would to want such questions in a Catholic forum on this board, although i'm certain that this particular question would have been answered in a similar manner by a Catholic poster.

 

[Look Homeward Anglican]

Context, context, context. Specific scriptures are not isolated from the rest of scripture. Let's look at a bigger slice of the Romans 10 passage shall we? i'll bold the appropriate parts.
What you see is that confession with the mouth is tied inseparably to belief.

The particlar verse you cite is actually a quotation of Joel 2:32, which also has something interesting to say:

It follows that believing and confessing is tied into the Lord's calling. One who is not called will not believe. (that's true whether one is a Calvinist, or Arminian, or a Catholic holding to St. Thomas Aquinas' anthropology).

Let's now look at the Matthew 7 passage, adding the previous section:
The Matthew passage is speaking of those who claim to be something that they're not. They claim to have done all of these works in Jesus' name, yet Jesus himself calls them workers of lawlessness. If one looks at the CONTEXT of these passages, the meaning becomes clear.

May i ask why you as a Catholic would ask questions such as this in a Reformed Forum? Mind you, i'm not casting any doubt on your sincerity, i'm merely curious. It would seem that you would to want such questions in a Catholic forum on this board, although i'm certain that this particular question would have been answered in a similar manner by a Catholic poster.

Thank you for your excellent and generous explanation of the scriptures. The reason I am asking here, is that generally speaking, the Catholic Church doesn't interpret scriptures any certain way (outside of a very few scriptures supporting the idea that Christ intended to found a Church, how it ought to be goverened, etc...) and frankly, I am just interested in Reformed thinking on scriptures because of some reason I don't even know right off hand. I hope that I am welcome to ask questions here, but if my presence should ever become inflamatory in any way, I shall leave. God bless you.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Thank you for your excellent and generous explanation of the scriptures. The reason I am asking here, is that generally speaking, the Catholic Church doesn't interpret scriptures any certain way (outside of a very few scriptures supporting the idea that Christ intended to found a Church, how it ought to be goverened, etc...) and frankly, I am just interested in Reformed thinking on scriptures because of some reason I don't even know right off hand. I hope that I am welcome to ask questions here, but if my presence should ever become inflamatory in any way, I shall leave. God bless you.

Please, by no means are you inflamatory, and you're quite welcome here.


i answered you question on the assumption that it was genuine interest. i still remain convinced that a knowledgable Catholic would have answered this particular question in a similar manner. This particular question was a rather non-controversial issue between Catholics and Protestants...both would probably be in agreement.


i hope you don't feel reservations about asking other questions. We really don't bite...much (though we Refomed people are not above snapping at each other from time-to-time). On another board, there was a controversy that was generated by a poster. It had both Catholics and Calvinists enraged, and a lively debate against this particular heresy ensued. One Catholic poster made the comment to the effect of "Were I to get into a bar fight, I'd like to have the Calvinists on my side", to which i replied, "Yes, but the chances are pretty good that we Calvinists started the fight."


i quite agree with you that Catholic apologetics are...well...Catholic apologetics. Where you could benefit is when the historical basis for heresies is discussed. We Protestants share at least five creeds with Catholics. The historical facts behind the development of those creeds is quite interesting. Protestants have in recent years stuffed the historical background into dusty closets in Theological seminaries. Hopefully this will change, but at the moment Catholics are ahead of us in demonatrating that..."there is nothing new under the sun".

 

[Look Homeward Anglican]

One Catholic poster made the comment to the effect of "Were I to get into a bar fight, I'd like to have the Calvinists on my side", to which i replied, "Yes, but the chances are pretty good that we Calvinists started the fight."

That is incredibly funny!
Thank you for the welcome.

 

[heymikey80]

Good question, and in fact ... yes, look to the context. Paul points out that the person calling on God's name "believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" Rom 10:9. So the heart belief is what Paul is drawing on in addition to speaking out words. In contrast Jesus says "I never knew you" to some of those who called Him "Lord, Lord". So it seems to me that Jesus knows personally those who will call out to Him from the heart.

People often look at passages like this as cause-effect: "Well, I called out to God from the heart, and so that caused God to come and save me." That may not be the case (indeed many of us think it is not). Those who are calling out to God from the heart are still those God saves. But God does the heart work, too -- so it's not us causing Him to act.

And so we're actually sitting on the bench of the winning team, basking in Jesus' glory. But we're not good enough to play the game without Him guiding our very steps. Yes, we call on Him (because He prompts us to). Yes, we are saved. But the calling doesn't cause the saving. The Christ causes the saving.

 

[OKgirl]

Please, by no means are you inflamatory, and you're quite welcome here.


i answered you question on the assumption that it was genuine interest. i still remain convinced that a knowledgable Catholic would have answered this particular question in a similar manner. This particular question was a rather non-controversial issue between Catholics and Protestants...both would probably be in agreement.


i hope you don't feel reservations about asking other questions. We really don't bite...much (though we Refomed people are not above snapping at each other from time-to-time). On another board, there was a controversy that was generated by a poster. It had both Catholics and Calvinists enraged, and a lively debate against this particular heresy ensued. One Catholic poster made the comment to the effect of "Were I to get into a bar fight, I'd like to have the Calvinists on my side", to which i replied, "Yes, but the chances are pretty good that we Calvinists started the fight."


i quite agree with you that Catholic apologetics are...well...Catholic apologetics. Where you could benefit is when the historical basis for heresies is discussed. We Protestants share at least five creeds with Catholics. The historical facts behind the development of those creeds is quite interesting. Protestants have in recent years stuffed the historical background into dusty closets in Theological seminaries. Hopefully this will change, but at the moment Catholics are ahead of us in demonatrating that..."there is nothing new under the sun".

hi

 

[OKgirl]

hi

hi

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

hi

Hi yourself!

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

hi

hi

It appears that you may be a bit confused with the interface this site uses. Don't feel alone in that, it confused me for the longest time as well. Sometimes it still does, and i'm quite a bit older than are you.

Just think about what you want to say, and type it in. If needed, i'm sure somebody can find some info on this site about how to do things such as font effects and graphics.

Enjoy your time here.

Regards,

CDL