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Josh, may I ask what this is based on?ExOrienteLux said:In the same way, the Virgin is the source of all that Christ shares in common with the rest of humanity (ie. a physical body, a human mind, a human will, et cetera) and the Father, as the Source of all things, is the Source of Christ's Divinity.
And any Catholic or Orthodox will tell you that Marian devotion is appropriate only insofar as it points to Christ -- what she did to enable Him to bring about our salvation.
Good enough, I can understand what you are talking about and I guess for the most part agree...Theotokos is a word I had already said I would agree with so no problem there.Oblio said:But you are picking and choosing definitions to find one that offends your Protestant sensibilities. If the Christological/Theological usage of the the phrase Mother of God confuses you or leads you to false assumptions, I suggest that the precise term Theotokos might be more appropriate in your case.
Ainesis said:Josh, may I ask what this is based on?
Polycarp1 said:And any Catholic or Orthodox will tell you that Marian devotion is appropriate only insofar as it points to Christ -- what she did to enable Him to bring about our salvation.
Josh,ExOrienteLux said:My understanding of Chalcedon, which is quite possibly wrong on the particulars, seeing as I've never actually read the Canons and decisions of the Council, but only summaries and overviews. I'm no theologian, so a lot of what I say should be taken a grain of salt. I say what I've found from my (albeit nowhere near complete enough) study of the Fathers, and I oftentimes post at work, where I can't get to their writings.
Could I have some more knowledgeable Orthodo-folks help me out/back me up/correct me when I'm wrong/sic a babushka on me?
RonBa said:We are still waiting for someone to come up with Scripture that says Mary was a virgin for ever.
Not there.
You may think I have, but I have not.Axion said:I think you've got the wrong thread.
Read befre you post!
Mary was, according to Scripture, the chosen instrument through which the Savior would take on humanity for our sakes, and willingly consented to take that role. And she, with all the saints, is alive in Christ and in the Heavenly places which He has prepared for us.RonBa said:You may think I have, but I have not.
If Mary was not a virgin forever then she has no role at all. If on the other hand she was then one maybe able to argue a role for her.
I believe that Mary's role was to be the mother of Jesus. That is all, she was a sinner, she needed a Saviour just like we all do.
She has no role at all now. We come to the Father through Jesus Christ, not Mary or any other dead saint.
Mary was chosen by the Father to be the mother of Jesus Christ. That was the role of Mary. She was to instruct, teach and nurture Him to adulthood. This is what she did.Polycarp1 said:Mary was, according to Scripture, the chosen instrument through which the Savior would take on humanity for our sakes, and willingly consented to take that role. And she, with all the saints, is alive in Christ and in the Heavenly places which He has prepared for us.
Whether or not she was perpetually virgin is totally irrelevant to her having willingly taken that role in God's plan.
She deserves our respect, whether or not we believe any particular thing about her.
Oh, and the title of "God-Bearer" (Theotokos) is something she is entitled to, not in and of herself, but because it was the chosen way to stress the trueness of the Nicene faith against the Nestorian heresy. And that's important -- how many times have you heard someone talk about "God" and "Jesus Christ" as though they were two completely distinct things? That's not Christianity -- it's at best Arianism or Nestorianism.
RonBa,RonBa said:Mary was chosen by the Father to be the mother of Jesus Christ. That was the role of Mary. She was to instruct, teach and nurture Him to adulthood. This is what she did.
In turn we are to respect her for this but not make her into something that she was never meant to be.
Making her or trying to make her into a saint is not Biblical.
I do not have one verse to say she ever went to heaven.
Can you give me one.
Ever have kids define a family? "A family is a father, a mother, and some kids" is what they'll usually come up with. The fact that the parents of that nuclear family are the children of their grandparents doesn't come home to them until they're quite a bit older than when they write definitions like this.CrossMovement said:How can Mary be the mother of God (Father) , when there is no one before him and that he created all things ?
Mary is the mother of Jesus (on earth) , she was just choosen to be the mother of the human frame of God (Jesus)
I know , I agree with that 100 %Polycarp1 said:God does not equal the Father. God is the Holy Trinity -- three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Polycarp1 said:The only people we know from Scripture to have gone to heaven, aside from angels following visitations, are Elijah and the penitent thief (presuming that "Paradise" and Heaven mean the same thing).
:o Uh, yeah!Cjwinnit said:Unless I misunderstood the Resurrection, Jesus is mentioned as being in heaven too..
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