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Role of Mary

  • She is the Mother of God

  • She was only a mere woman


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SPALATIN

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The Angels were created before man, but were created for a different purpose. Yes, they had free will and as a result of their decision to implement that will we see Gabriel becoming one of God's messengers. We see Lucifer falling and becoming the adversary Satan. However, Adam and Eve, while they had free will before the fall did not have it after the fall. They only had a will to please self. Sin is the slavemaster here and they chose to separate from God by use of their free will, but that was taken away after they fell from Grace. Paul speaks extensively of this in his epistles. He says that he was a slave to sin, but through Christ he is now a bondservant for God.

Sin was a cruel slavemaster and Christ is a gentle master who aids us with his Holy Spirit to do his work. Sin whips us and beats us down to make us feel lower than dirt. Christ lifts us up and shakes off the dirt and says follow me.
 
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SumTinWong

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I disagree.

Mary was a child??? Not an adult. Rather patronising.
I consider thirteen a child.

Only if you choose to ignore so much else that is there.
Which you know I do.
 
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TSIBHOD

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The divinity of Jesus did not originate in Mary. That is what I was elucidating. His humanity originated in Mary, and His divinity originated in God. Mary was "mother" of all of this, because Jesus was one person.

I have no problem with Mary being the "mother of God." I just have a problem with where people go after that.
 
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RonBa

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Can you give the verses where Mary is mentioned at Pentecost please?
 
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RonBa

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"However vague and indefinite the creed of individual Protestants may be, it always rests on a few standard rules, or principles, bearing on the Sources of faith, the means of justification, and the constitution of the Church. An acknowledged Protestant authority, Philip Schaff (in "The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge", s.v. Reformation), sums up the principles of Protestantism in the following words:

The Protestant goes directly to the Word of God for instruction, and to the throne of grace in his devotions; whilst the pious Roman Catholic consults the teaching of his church, and prefers to offer his prayers through the medium of the Virgin Mary and the saints.

From this general principle of Evangelical freedom, and direct individual relationship of the believer to Christ, proceed the three fundamental doctrines of Protestantism — the absolute supremacy of (1) the Word, and of (2) the grace of Christ, and (3) the general priesthood of believers. . . ."

(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm)

Take note of how the prayers are to go to God.

"The Protestant goes directly to the Word of God for instruction, and to the throne of grace in his devotions; whilst the pious Roman Catholic consults the teaching of his church, and prefers to offer his prayers through the medium of the Virgin Mary and the saints."

The medium is through "Mary"

As far as I know and can see there is nothing in the Bible to support that.
 
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Oblio

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RonBa said:
Thanks for that.

As far as I can see that is the last time we hear of Mary.

We've given many references as to the life of the Theotokos. Because you refuse to critically examine them and just cast them aside merely becasue they are not in the Bible, does not make them false, nor does it cast doubt on their accuracy.



Yet elsewhere you make a completely different statement as to what you understand Protestantism to be. Which is it ??
 
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Lotar

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Momzilla said:
In this day and age, 13 is indeed a child. But at that time, 13 was an adult--Mary was betrothed to be married to Joseph, remember.
Was she? I read that she was 15.

But yes, 13 was considered an adult.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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She died, and ascended into heaven on the 3rd day.... That's the Orthodox teaching, I'm sure the Catholics agree...

Forgive me...
 
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SumTinWong

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Momzilla said:
In this day and age, 13 is indeed a child. But at that time, 13 was an adult--Mary was betrothed to be married to Joseph, remember.
Sure and in the some remote places int he world it is still practiced. Next time you are at the mall, take a look at a thirteen year old and tell me she is a woman. She isn't.
 
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Axion

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This is of course an appalling caricature of both catholics and protestants.

While it sounds very fine, the "protestant" of course does not go to the "Word of God" for his instruction. (One assumes this means the Protestant Bible, the Word of God being Jesus.). The protestant goes to recent, novel traditions taught by his pastor and denomination, and backed by carefully chosen "proof texts" from scripture. Texts that disagree with the denominational tradition are ignored or explained away. This process leads to each protestant denomination disagreeing with every other protestant grouping on what the bible means.

The Catholic (and Orthodox) however, goes to the full deposit of Apostolic teaching, deposited, as the Bible itself says, in the Church not in any one book. Jesus gave teaching authority to the Church founded on Peter and the Apostles, centuries before the Bible was put together. Thus Catholics and Orthodox Christians hold to the same basic teachings as the original Christians and the first Fathers of the Church. teachings that have always been taught through all ages, as Jesus promised.

As for prayer Catholics of course do pray directly to God, through Jesus. They also pray in communion with Mary and all the Christians in the closer presence of god in heaven.
 
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SumTinWong

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Congratulations, you are the very first person in all these forums, I have decided to put on ignore. Even though I would not choose RonBa to speak for me as a non-Catholic, you certainly don't have the right. If a non-catholic were to portray you in a like manner you would have a fit. I am highly offended by your post, and I never wish to read anything else you write. That is pretty sad.
 
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Jay2004

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RonBa, did your Pastor tell you this??
The word of God that you so speak of, was written by the catholic church?
I think the people who wrote the New Testament would best know and understand it, not someone who came along with his own ideas and traditions 500 years ago..

Here we go again with the Calvinist tradition of "Priesthood of all believers"
Again the church and it's holy tradition came before your so called word..
RonBa, do you think the bible fell out of the sky???


Protestants = Faith Alone, Scripture Alone, Priesthood of all believers traditions founded by Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc...

catholics = Faith and Works, Holy tradition and scripture, founded at the Pentacost on the teachings of Jesus Christ, taught through the apostles and the church fathers who wrote down the New Testament, did great councils to filter out herresies and misteachings, passed down to us through apostolic traditions to us, unscathed....
 
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