Rights

[tansy]

What do you think about the concept of "rights"?
We have human rights, animal rights, rights for this that and the other.
Governments pass laws on rights that people have in certain situations...and these rights may change.

Are there any fundamental rights?

Do we, as humans have any God-given rights?

Do we or can we forfeit our rights?

How many rights that we have are mere human constructs?

Anyone got any thoughts at all about rights?

I've put this in Ethics and Morality section, rather than the Christian E an M section, so that I can get views from different perspectives.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Goverments that give rights should expect people to use them, but on the whole, they're on the whole. When it comes to God, we are in no place to demand "rights". It's a simple reply but I don't have my notes..

 

[Washington]

As an inborn desire to be with, and get along with other people, I believe recognizing the rights of others is almost instinctual. If I want you as a friend I will have to grant you the same rights I desire for myself.

 

[tansy]

Goverments that give rights should expect people to use them, but on the whole, they're on the whole. When it comes to God, we are in no place to demand "rights". It's a simple reply but I don't have my notes..

It would be interesting to have had a fuller response, if you'd had your notes
But anyhow, I agree that we can't demand "rights" from God...but wonder if He has actually given us any rights..

 

[tansy]

As an inborn desire to be with, and get along with other people, I believe recognizing the rights of others is almost instinctual. If I want you as a friend I will have to grant you the same rights I desire for myself.

Yes, I see what you mean....but what would you say these rights are?

 

[Washington]

Yes, I see what you mean....but what would you say these rights are?

The right to retain what someone else desires, and the "what" can be anything. The list is far too extensive to begin any enumeration.

 

[FedererFan]

What do you think about the concept of "rights"?
We have human rights, animal rights, rights for this that and the other.
Governments pass laws on rights that people have in certain situations...and these rights may change.

Are there any fundamental rights?

No.

Do we, as humans have any God-given rights?

No.

Do we or can we forfeit our rights?

Yes. This is exactly what we do when we enter into societies.

How many rights that we have are mere human constructs?

All of them.

Anyone got any thoughts at all about rights?

There are no natural rights. Nobody necessarily has the right to or to do anything. Naturally, a person can do anything they want. However, humans are social and we have decided that we're better off living together and with certain rules to live by. When we enter into these societies, we necessarily contract with other people and agree to do or not to do certain things. So person A tells person B one of the terms of this social contract, "I will not kill you. You will not kill me." B must consider if his ability to kill A (and all other members of the contract) is outweighed by the knowledge that A will not kill him. Obviously, B will take this bargain and the social contract is entered into (with many more terms of course).

So we do this with nearly all aspects of life. We grant rights to other members of society in exchange for having those rights for ourselves. But, the rights aren't absolute. Society can always (maybe not rightly however) decide that they want to change the terms of the contract. Unfortunately, it doesn't always require consent from both sides.

 

[tansy]

The right to retain what someone else desires, and the "what" can be anything. The list is far too extensive to begin any enumeration.

What if these desires are harmful to other people?

 

[Washington]

What if these desires are harmful to other people?

First of all I should have said, "The right to decide for oneself regardless of what someone else desires, and the "what" can be anything. The list is far too extensive to begin any enumeration.

If someone else's desire is harmful, then in exercising your right to decide on that action yourself, you may or may not do that harm.

 

[tansy]

First of all I should have said, "The right to decide for oneself regardless of what someone else desires, and the "what" can be anything. The list is far too extensive to begin any enumeration.

If someone else's desire is harmful, then in exercising your right to decide on that action yourself, you may or may not do that harm.

ok

 

[ebia]

I'm not sure 'rights' is a good way of addressing the point, but I'm also not sure one can do better without reference to a particular religion or philosophy.

From a Judeo/Christian perspective I think one should start from the position that everyone, every man, woman and child, is made in the image of God - and everything else should flow naturally from that if one is respecting the God in who's image we are made.

 

[Washington]

I'm not sure 'rights' is a good way of addressing the point, but I'm also not sure one can do better without reference to a particular religion or philosophy.

And you don't think tansy should ask the question she wants to ask? Isn't that a bit condescending?

 

[Maren]

I would say about the only "rights" we have are the choice of how we choose to react to a given situation -- and even that can be argued about whether we have a "choice" (if we actually have free will). As a general rule, you only have as many rights as your society/government give you.

 

[tansy]

I'm not sure 'rights' is a good way of addressing the point, but I'm also not sure one can do better without reference to a particular religion or philosophy.

From a Judeo/Christian perspective I think one should start from the position that everyone, every man, woman and child, is made in the image of God - and everything else should flow naturally from that if one is respecting the God in who's image we are made.

Yes, I deliberately left the OP open so that people could respond from their own philosophical or religious viewpoints. I've always found the concept of rights rather a nebulous thing. Do we indeed HAVE any rights? If so, are any God-given, or are they merely human constructs?

 

[Jade Margery]

As a living creature on this planet, the only natural right we have is the right to do absolutely anything we need to survive.

All other rights are societal constructions and may even interfere with the above.

 

[Protocol11]

In reality, there are only a few natural rights. You have the right to do as you please, and get away with it if you can, or face the consequences if you can't. You also the right to attempt to preserve your life, lifestyle and the lives of those around you if you are able.

Might makes right in the real world.

So we do this with nearly all aspects of life. We grant rights to other members of society in exchange for having those rights for ourselves. But, the rights aren't absolute. Society can always (maybe not rightly however) decide that they want to change the terms of the contract. Unfortunately, it doesn't always require consent from both sides.

That's why for legal purposes, fundimental rights should be considered as having come from God. Makes it harder to alter or destroy them.

 

[FedererFan]

In reality, there are only a few natural rights. You have the right to do as you please, and get away with it if you can, or face the consequences if you can't. You also the right to attempt to preserve your life, lifestyle and the lives of those around you if you are able.

Might makes right in the real world.



That's why for legal purposes, fundimental rights should be considered as having come from God. Makes it harder to alter or destroy them.

Well, that only works if the majority believe in God AND agree that their rights should be founded and based upon that belief. We don't have that here. Also, it would require that people agree on what rights are given by God. In the US, I don't see this happening. It would be theocracy.

 

[Protocol11]

Well, that only works if the majority believe in God AND agree that their rights should be founded and based upon that belief. We don't have that here. Also, it would require that people agree on what rights are given by God. In the US, I don't see this happening. It would be theocracy.

Your flag is American. Somewhere around 85% of the population believes in God or some higher power.

Now certainly our rights shouldn't be tied into anyone religion, but merely the concept that there is a higher power that has bestowed us basic, common sense rights.

Right granted by humans can be taken by humans. Rights granted by a higher power may be a bit harder to take away.

 

[FedererFan]

Your flag is American. Somewhere around 85% of the population believes in God or some higher power.

Now certainly our rights shouldn't be tied into anyone religion, but merely the concept that there is a higher power that has bestowed us basic, common sense rights.

Right granted by humans can be taken by humans. Rights granted by a higher power may be a bit harder to take away.

I know that most people do believe in God. It doesn't necessarily follow though, that our legal system recognizes rights are given by a god.

But we do have a system where rights can be taken away by humans. Even rights given by the Constitution which are said to be fundamental or inalienable can be taken away by amendment. Humans give rights and humans can take rights away.

 

[Maren]

Your flag is American. Somewhere around 85% of the population believes in God or some higher power.

Now certainly our rights shouldn't be tied into anyone religion, but merely the concept that there is a higher power that has bestowed us basic, common sense rights.

Right granted by humans can be taken by humans. Rights granted by a higher power may be a bit harder to take away.

No, it doesn't really make it harder to take rights away. The various Constitutional Amendments, some of which forbid the legal recognition of same-sex relationships in any form, is proof. All it takes is a majority who think that God doesn't like those people (they are unrepentant sinners).