Rich Man and Lazarus most misunderstood parable in NT?

Aseyesee

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By your own admission, misunderstanding abounds, including yours.

Parables are meant to teach the simple people, simple ideas in clear concepts they can relate to. They take earthly relationships and relate them to heavenly ideas. These will never be exact or perfect descriptors of a heavenly concept. Regardless if the text is a story or parable, the message is SIMPLE.

You take this and twist it into a complex concept with no explicit relationship between the earthly and the heavenly objects in the text. You take the simple concepts and throw them out. You forget who Jesus was talking to, simple people.

Further you ignore the context of the preceding parable of the shrewd manager which is clearly about judgement and reward for our actions in this age.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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By your own admission, misunderstanding abounds, including yours.
Regardless if the text is a story or parable, the message is SIMPLE.

You take this and twist it into a complex concept with no explicit relationship between the earthly and the heavenly objects in the text. You take the simple concepts and throw them out. You forget who Jesus was talking to, simple people..........
Ease up bro.
Now, do you have anything constructive to add to the thread topic?

2 Corin 11:3 and I fear, lest as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Christ;
 
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amariselle

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By your own admission, misunderstanding abounds, including yours.

Parables are meant to teach the simple people, simple ideas in clear concepts they can relate to. They take earthly relationships and relate them to heavenly ideas. These will never be exact or perfect descriptors of a heavenly concept. Regardless if the text is a story or parable, the message is SIMPLE.

You take this and twist it into a complex concept with no explicit relationship between the earthly and the heavenly objects in the text. You take the simple concepts and throw them out. You forget who Jesus was talking to, simple people.

Let's take a look at why Jesus says He taught in parables (the disciples asked Him this very question):

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?

He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:10-17
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Yea when he said these words people quite often think that Jesus spoke in parables to make things easier , that is not true .

He spoke in parables so people who don't believe in him will not be damned , because God is just and will punish you for doing bad according to what you know at that time .

So Jesus give truth but it's hidden , if somebody understand then he will give you more truth untill your eyes are fully open .

He would privately explain these parables to his disciples , but to people who come to hear his teachings he spoke in parables . It was caused by unbeliev of Jewish priests . 2 Timothy 3:7 , Mark 4:33-34
 
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disciple1

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This is a spinoff from another thread that is closed:
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

Why do some commentators view the Rich Man and Lazarus parable of Luke 16 as of the most misunderstood parables in NT?
If I am understanding this correctly, it appears it is more of a covenantle story between the OC[Moses] and NC[Jesus]

LUKE 16:26 " 'And besides all this, between us[NC Jesus/Spirit?] and ye[OC/Moses/Carnal?] there is a great gulf fixed,
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "
LUKE 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.' "

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching..............................

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah.............

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave? It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day,” that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place. But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, “A certain man had two sons...”

THE RICH MAN

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is without question one of the least understood of all the teachings of our Lord. What is its aim? It is a similitude of something; for all the parables are similitudes,..................

Observe the particulars respecting the rich man. He was one of Abraham’s seed, one who even in hell could not forget his election, but still cried, “Father! Abraham.” He was “clothed in purple and fine linen, “the raiment of the Kingdom, and, as a child of the Kingdom, he “fared sumptuously every day.” Who is this man? The rich man in this parable represents the Jewish nation, the house of Judah,
Purple is the color of royalty. Fine linen stands for righteousness in this instance the righteousness of the law, established by the priests and Levites who, dressed in white linen, officiated in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the nation. The rich man was “clothed in purple and fine linen.” Those who are in purple are rulers. The rich man was a ruler. And Jesus never uttered His parables or sermons concerning someone away off in Siberia or China. He spoke to and of the Jews, the church of His day. Judah was the royal tribe, and purple is the color pertaining to royalty. The kingdom of Judah had the ministry of the priesthood - clothed in fine linen.

.................................................
1417505568-Fishing-Best-Demotivational-Posters.jpg
Are you wealthy and trying to justify your self to someone.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
 
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Dartman

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Christ would not teach falsehoods about eternal punishment. Even if it could be proven this is a parable, a parable is "confined to that which is real. Its imagery always embodies a narrative which is true to the facts and experiences of human life” (Terry, M. S. 1890. Hermeneutics. New York, NY: Eaton & Mains.) Are the Dead Conscious?

Christ shows there is a continued existence of both good and bad, consciousness of both, a permanent fixed gulf with no end and no crossing over.
Your assertions regarding what is "confined" in parables offers no supporting evidence. Parables are as unlimited in mechanics as visions, dreams, or any other figurative method.
We KNOW the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable for several reasons.
1) Scripture states clearly Jesus ALWAYS spoke to them in parables. (Matt13:34, Mark 4:11,34)
2) The text begins EXACTLY like the first parable in the same chapter! (There was a certain rich man...)
3) Any attempt to make the text literal creates complete contradiction with the rest of the Scriptures.
4) The text is a magnificent prophecy/warning about what was going to happen to Israel for rejecting Jesus.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Any attempt to make the text literal creates complete contradiction with the rest of the Scriptures.

How? No one in this thread has yet ever shown that any of the parables were not also literal. That point was brought up multiple times, and no one has ever addressed it. You keep saying that it's not literal, because it's a parable, and you ignore the repeated point made by others that all of the parables are about things that probably did happen at some time.
 
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Victor E.

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This is a spinoff from another thread that is closed:
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

Why do some commentators view the Rich Man and Lazarus parable of Luke 16 as of the most misunderstood parables in NT?
If I am understanding this correctly, it appears it is more of a covenantle story between the OC[Moses] and NC[Jesus]

LUKE 16:26 " 'And besides all this, between us[NC Jesus/Spirit?] and ye[OC/Moses/Carnal?] there is a great gulf fixed,
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "
LUKE 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.' "

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching..............................

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah.............

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave? It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day,” that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place. But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, “A certain man had two sons...”

THE RICH MAN

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is without question one of the least understood of all the teachings of our Lord. What is its aim? It is a similitude of something; for all the parables are similitudes,..................

Observe the particulars respecting the rich man. He was one of Abraham’s seed, one who even in hell could not forget his election, but still cried, “Father! Abraham.” He was “clothed in purple and fine linen, “the raiment of the Kingdom, and, as a child of the Kingdom, he “fared sumptuously every day.” Who is this man? The rich man in this parable represents the Jewish nation, the house of Judah,
Purple is the color of royalty. Fine linen stands for righteousness in this instance the righteousness of the law, established by the priests and Levites who, dressed in white linen, officiated in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the nation. The rich man was “clothed in purple and fine linen.” Those who are in purple are rulers. The rich man was a ruler. And Jesus never uttered His parables or sermons concerning someone away off in Siberia or China. He spoke to and of the Jews, the church of His day. Judah was the royal tribe, and purple is the color pertaining to royalty. The kingdom of Judah had the ministry of the priesthood - clothed in fine linen.

.................................................
1417505568-Fishing-Best-Demotivational-Posters.jpg

An interesting revelation I recieved from a brother of mine in the Lord.

'The story of the rich man and Lazarus. This was a true story, names are never used in parables.When Lazarus died he went to the place of the righteous. When the rich man died he went to the place of the wicked. In his life,the rich man was well known, influential, had a powerful position and a respected name. Question; what was the rich man's name? We know the name of the poor man, but why not the rich man? In the spirit realm; in the realm of the demons and angels the rich man was a nameless nobody. Spiritually he was no one. Lazarus was a son of God. In the spirit realm everyone knew his name, he was a somebody. There is no book filled with the names of the damned, because they are spiritually no one. There is however a book of life, and Jesus told his disciples to rejoice that their name is written in it.'
 
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Phil 1:21

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This is a spinoff from another thread that is closed:
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

Why do some commentators view the Rich Man and Lazarus parable of Luke 16 as of the most misunderstood parables in NT?
If I am understanding this correctly, it appears it is more of a covenantle story between the OC[Moses] and NC[Jesus]

LUKE 16:26 " 'And besides all this, between us[NC Jesus/Spirit?] and ye[OC/Moses/Carnal?] there is a great gulf fixed,
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "
LUKE 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.' "

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching..............................

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah.............

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave? It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day,” that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place. But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, “A certain man had two sons...”

THE RICH MAN

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is without question one of the least understood of all the teachings of our Lord. What is its aim? It is a similitude of something; for all the parables are similitudes,..................

Observe the particulars respecting the rich man. He was one of Abraham’s seed, one who even in hell could not forget his election, but still cried, “Father! Abraham.” He was “clothed in purple and fine linen, “the raiment of the Kingdom, and, as a child of the Kingdom, he “fared sumptuously every day.” Who is this man? The rich man in this parable represents the Jewish nation, the house of Judah,
Purple is the color of royalty. Fine linen stands for righteousness in this instance the righteousness of the law, established by the priests and Levites who, dressed in white linen, officiated in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the nation. The rich man was “clothed in purple and fine linen.” Those who are in purple are rulers. The rich man was a ruler. And Jesus never uttered His parables or sermons concerning someone away off in Siberia or China. He spoke to and of the Jews, the church of His day. Judah was the royal tribe, and purple is the color pertaining to royalty. The kingdom of Judah had the ministry of the priesthood - clothed in fine linen.

.................................................
1417505568-Fishing-Best-Demotivational-Posters.jpg

That's an interesting theory, and thanks for sharing it. But it's just a little too far fetched for me.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
If you are going to half quote scripture to make an argument, don't do it so half baked. A full quote and reading of scripture teaches that the reason the Pharisees rejected God was not because they did not understand scripture or the words that Jesus taught because the concepts were too complicated for them.

How ironic, the "smart" theologians of Jesus' day missed the simple message Jesus had, but the simple people of the day understood it. Sometimes this still applies today. The reason why they did not understand Jesus' parables is because their hearts were hardened, not because the message was too complicated for them.

Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’​
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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While translating this parable some years back, I came across a greek word #1276 in vs 26 that really stuck out at me as symbolizing "sail over".
If you look at the instances where this word is used, it always denotes crossing over water in a boat.
Pretty interesting:

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
Strong's Number G1276 matches the Greek διαπεράω (diaperaō), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the Greek concordance
to pass over, cross over, i.e. a river, a lake

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able,
neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)


Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry,
which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.


1224. diabaino dee-ab-ah'-ee-no from 1223 and the base of 939; to cross:--come over, pass (through).
1276. diaperao dee-ap-er-ah'-o from 1223 and a derivative of the base of 4008; to cross entirely:--go over, pass (over), sail over.

Deu 28:68
And the LORD will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”


 
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Dartman

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How? No one in this thread has yet ever shown that any of the parables were not also literal. That point was brought up multiple times, and no one has ever addressed it. You keep saying that it's not literal, because it's a parable, and you ignore the repeated point made by others that all of the parables are about things that probably did happen at some time.
No one believes it's literal. Abraham's bosom is obviously figurative of SOMETHING. It certainly isn't his literal chest cavity. Everyone assigns SOME figurative meaning to the elements of the parable. Almost everyone understands Jesus' figurative meaning in "drink my blood, and eat my flesh".
Almost everyone understands his figurative point in "cutting off" the offending limb. I have yet to find anyone literally searching for the "pearl of great price" based on his parable.
That being said, the other side of your point is, no one in this thread, or any other, has provided one shred of proof that parables are limited to literal components...... ever.
But, more important, the rest of Scriptures make it VERY clear, the dead are not alive.
Isa 38:1 .... Thus saith Jehovah, Set thy house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years should be finished.
 
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Halbhh

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If you are going to half quote scripture to make an argument, don't do it so half baked. A full quote and reading of scripture teaches that the reason the Pharisees rejected God was not because they did not understand scripture or the words that Jesus taught because the concepts were too complicated for them.

How ironic, the "smart" theologians of Jesus' day missed the simple message Jesus had, but the simple people of the day understood it. Sometimes this still applies today. The reason why they did not understand Jesus' parables is because their hearts were hardened, not because the message was too complicated for them.

Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’​

What a good scripture to put together with the other answer He gave us about this --

21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
(Luke 10, and as also in Matthew)

Which we know is how we, you and I, are told we must "change" to be like --
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."

We learn this is humility from the context, but then we also learn more in another passage --
But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."

We all can learn from interacting with little children that they have hearts that are not hardened. They listen. They hear.
 
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Aseyesee

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If you are going to half quote scripture to make an argument, don't do it so half baked. A full quote and reading of scripture teaches that the reason the Pharisees rejected God was not because they did not understand scripture or the words that Jesus taught because the concepts were too complicated for them.

How ironic, the "smart" theologians of Jesus' day missed the simple message Jesus had, but the simple people of the day understood it. Sometimes this still applies today. The reason why they did not understand Jesus' parables is because their hearts were hardened, not because the message was too complicated for them.

Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’​

It was to the end of the purpose God that they would not understand, or they would have (as you quoted "Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts and turn ...").

But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Even the law from mount Sinai was to this end, which by this mentality Christ would be literally crucified, though this was a truth from the foundation of the world.
 
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TheSeabass

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Your assertions regarding what is "confined" in parables offers no supporting evidence. Parables are as unlimited in mechanics as visions, dreams, or any other figurative method.
We KNOW the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable for several reasons.
1) Scripture states clearly Jesus ALWAYS spoke to them in parables. (Matt13:34, Mark 4:11,34)
2) The text begins EXACTLY like the first parable in the same chapter! (There was a certain rich man...)
3) Any attempt to make the text literal creates complete contradiction with the rest of the Scriptures.
4) The text is a magnificent prophecy/warning about what was going to happen to Israel for rejecting Jesus.

1) Again, even if it was a parable it still teaches eternal torment else Christ lied. The design of parables was to reveal truths, not lies or fairy tales about what happens after one dies.

2) All that Christ spoke that day in Matt 13 was in parables to fulfill a prophecy (verse 35), but Christ did not always speak in parables.

3) Luke 16:1 does not give a specific name as in Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus". No need to give a specific name if "Lazarus" did not really exist.

4) in the context of Luke 16 Christ's theme is about money, riches. Christ is showing His disciples that all things belong to God including your wealth so they are to be good stewards of GOD'S money, Luke 16:1-13 and that one cannot serve both God and money/mammon. Yet the COVETOUS Pharisees derided Christ for saying what He said about money, verse 14. Jesus, knowing their hearts (verse 15) telling them they cannot 'press' their way into heaven (verse 16) one enters on God's terms. Verse 18 is to show how the Pharisees perverted God's law. Then Jesus speaks of the rich man and Lazarus and a point being here who was in torment (rich) and who was in paradise (poor). In telling of who ends up in torment and who is in paradise Jesus (1) gave us a glimpse of some factual information on what happens after one dies and the other lesson to be learned in Luke 16 is (2) how one handles his wealth. The rich man trusted more in his riches than God (as the Pharisees) living in luxury and extravagance yet did nothing for those in need as Lazarus. Then Jesus gives a total reversal where the rich are in torment and anguish and the poor in paradise, comfort, having all he needs. This was opposite of the Pharisees attitude that the rich had favor with God and the poor did not. The meaning of the parable is not about being wealthy but what you do with your wealth, what are you doing with GOD'S money in helping the poor, are you a good steward with GOD'S money in helping those in need. The base meaning of what Jesus is saying is that one's eternal fate is based on showing mercy (or lack thereof) to others (Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy, Matt 5) and not determined by wealth accumulation or being a descendant of Abraham.
 
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Dartman

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1) Again, even if it was a parable it still teaches eternal torment else Christ lied. The design of parables was to reveal truths, not lies.
No, it teaches Israel (the rich man) was going to be removed from the Abrahamic Promises (Abraham's bosom), and the Gentiles (Lazarus) were going to be grafted in (Matt 21:43, Rom 11)

TheSeabass said:
2) All that Christ spoke that day in Matt 13 was in parables to fulfill a prophecy (verse 35), but Christ did not always speak in parables.
Sorry, your rewording the Scriptures.

TheSeabass said:
3) Luke 16:1 does not give a specific name as in Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus". No need to give a specific name if "Lazarus" did not really exist.
Irrelevant.

TheSeabass said:
4) in the context of Luke 16 Christ's theme is about money, riches.
No, it's about the TRUE riches of God's promises. The leadership of Israel was wasting God's treasure.
 
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Noxot

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Even if we presume it's not a "true story", we have to remember it's a parable, NOT a fable. Fables use unrealistic situations (a rabbit and tortoise being sentient and agreeing to a foot race), whereas parables use realistic situations - things that can actually happen in reality.

you could translate the book called "proverbs" into "parables"

While translating this parable some years back, I came across a greek word #1276 in vs 26 that really stuck out at me as symbolizing "sail over".
If you look at the instances where this word is used, it always denotes crossing over water in a boat.
Pretty interesting:

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
Strong's Number G1276 matches the Greek διαπεράω (diaperaō), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the Greek concordance
to pass over, cross over, i.e. a river, a lake

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able,
neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)


Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry,
which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.


1224. diabaino dee-ab-ah'-ee-no from 1223 and the base of 939; to cross:--come over, pass (through).
1276. diaperao dee-ap-er-ah'-o from 1223 and a derivative of the base of 4008; to cross entirely:--go over, pass (over), sail over.

Deu 28:68
And the LORD will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”



wow that is interesting. I wonder if we could cross if we had a cross.
 
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TheSeabass

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No, it teaches Israel (the rich man) was going to be removed from the Abrahamic Promises (Abraham's bosom), and the Gentiles (Lazarus) were going to be grafted in (Matt 21:43, Rom 11)

Sorry, your rewording the Scriptures.

Irrelevant.

No, it's about the TRUE riches of God's promises. The leadership of Israel was wasting God's treasure.

The lesson given in Luke 16 is about wealth and being a good steward of God's money and the eternal fate of those that are not good stewards. Anything beyond this one is reading too much into it.

====

Matt 13:34 refers to what Jesus was speaking that day, a certain day and not all the time for He did not always speak in parables.

Coke's Commentary on Mt 13:34: And without a parable spake he not, &c.— That is, "not at that time," or "to the people who then heard him." See the note on Matthew 13:1.

Coke's Commentary of Mt 13:1: " The same day— This is the plain and literal meaning of the original, and it may be understood of the day when the mother and relations of our Saviour came to him. It must however be observed, that this expression is not always to be taken literally, but may only signify at that time, or on a certain day,—on one of those days, as St. Luke words it, Luke 5:17."

====

Far from being"irrelevant" that a specific name was used.
 
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Halbhh

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This is a spinoff from another thread that is closed:
Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

Why do some commentators view the Rich Man and Lazarus parable of Luke 16 as of the most misunderstood parables in NT?
If I am understanding this correctly, it appears it is more of a covenantle story between the OC[Moses] and NC[Jesus]

LUKE 16:26 " 'And besides all this, between us[NC Jesus/Spirit?] and ye[OC/Moses/Carnal?] there is a great gulf fixed,
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "
LUKE 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets;
let them hear them.' "

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading. In this article, we will go through the parable verse by verse to determine what the Messiah was truly teaching..............................

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

CONCLUSION
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah.............

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is without doubt one of the most misunderstood of all the stories in the Bible. Is it a parable, or an actual statement of facts concerning life beyond the grave? It is strenuously denied by most evangelists that this story, as told by Christ, could be a parable. They hold that this is not a parable because it starts out in narrative form. It is argued, because it reads, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day,” that Christ is speaking here of an actual incident that took place. But in the parable of the prodigal son, in the fifteenth chapter of Luke, the narrative introduction is found also, for it says, “A certain man had two sons...”

THE RICH MAN

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is without question one of the least understood of all the teachings of our Lord. What is its aim? It is a similitude of something; for all the parables are similitudes,..................

Observe the particulars respecting the rich man. He was one of Abraham’s seed, one who even in hell could not forget his election, but still cried, “Father! Abraham.” He was “clothed in purple and fine linen, “the raiment of the Kingdom, and, as a child of the Kingdom, he “fared sumptuously every day.” Who is this man? The rich man in this parable represents the Jewish nation, the house of Judah,
Purple is the color of royalty. Fine linen stands for righteousness in this instance the righteousness of the law, established by the priests and Levites who, dressed in white linen, officiated in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the nation. The rich man was “clothed in purple and fine linen.” Those who are in purple are rulers. The rich man was a ruler. And Jesus never uttered His parables or sermons concerning someone away off in Siberia or China. He spoke to and of the Jews, the church of His day. Judah was the royal tribe, and purple is the color pertaining to royalty. The kingdom of Judah had the ministry of the priesthood - clothed in fine linen.

.................................................
1417505568-Fishing-Best-Demotivational-Posters.jpg

You know, even though people can definitely argue on and on and on about Hades and the lake of fire and what precisely the "eternal punishment" is, whether only the devil and his angels could continue to exist there, having immortality, but what of human souls, and what is "destroy" and what is "second death", and just on and on, arguing....

....let's aim totally that we don't have to find out.

Instead, the real understanding we need from this story is that we must not ignore our needy brothers and sisters nearby to us that we may encounter...
 
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Dartman

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The lesson given in Luke 16 is about wealth and being a good steward of God's money and the eternal fate of those that are not good stewards. Anything beyond this one is reading too much into it.
Quite the contrary, stopping with the simplistic will rob one of the truth. Jesus criticized the Jewish leadership for their squandering of God's treasure, their depriving the common people of the truth.
TheSeabass said:
Far from being"irrelevant" that a specific name was used.
Scripture please?
If you have none, (and we both know you don't), it's pure conjecture.
It's more likely Jesus just picked a name to make the parable easier to tell.

"There was a guy named Dave ....."
 
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