RFK is Right about this...

Offline4Better. · Jul 3, 2024

IceJad said:
That would be good to know but a nightmare to implement. You will need a global agreement on it.

Seems that this global agreement will not happen. Hey, we can not solve all global issues, but we can do our part, and not buy Chinese, as much as possible. If we have to buy Chinese, we must take care of our items, and make them last as long as possible. I am hoping to keep my phone for 6 years, as I power it off at night to save battery, and set the charge limit to 80%. Those two things will extend the recharge cycles by a few years, I hope.

SimplyMe · Jul 3, 2024

One other thing I saw today, the current list of the most American made cars; interesting that if you remove the 3 Tesla's the top 10 is largely Japanese brands, and even a car from a German company -- and even Jeep is arguably not an American company, being owned by a company headquarters in the Netherlands.

I do remember through the 80s and 90s, Walmart trying to take up the mantle of "American made" and attempted to feature American products in their store. Another issue that I glossed over, though, is the fact that "We the People" tended to go for what was the least expensive, rather than American made. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Though politicians still had a huge role, in all of this, as they often allowed other countries (to start with, it was often Japan "dumping" steel at below international market prices) to undercut US suppliers. China did this a lot, losing money to kill off things like the American rare mineral industry.

Offline4Better. · Jul 3, 2024

SimplyMe said:
One other thing I saw today, the current list of the most American made cars; interesting that if you remove the 3 Tesla's the top 10 is largely Japanese brands, and even a car from a German company -- and even Jeep is arguably not an American company, being owned by a company headquarters in the Netherlands.

I do remember through the 80s and 90s, Walmart trying to take up the mantle of "American made" and attempted to feature American products in their store. Another issue that I glossed over, though, is the fact that "We the People" tended to go for what was the least expensive, rather than American made. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Though politicians still had a huge role, in all of this, as they often allowed other countries (to start with, it was often Japan "dumping" steel at below international market prices) to undercut US suppliers. China did this a lot, losing money to kill off things like the American rare mineral industry.

Stellantis (Dutch company) owns Jeep, as far as I can remember. I do like the Japanese car build quality though.

Offline4Better. · Jul 4, 2024

SimplyMe said:
I'd put it under Reagan -- the 80's when "Greed is good" was the mantra (thanks Michael Douglas and the movie Wall Street). There was a major change in corporations back in the 80s, partially due to the number of corporate raiders, where short term profits were valued over long term prospects. All sorts of companies were moving factories to Asia to take advantage of much lower labor costs.

My recollection of Clinton's "selling our souls" is that I didn't like it, at all, but that it made little difference as they already had most of our jobs.

Yeah, Reagan started it. Clinton exacerbated it.

IceJad · Jul 4, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Yeah, Reagan started it. Clinton exacerbated it.

It is definitely Clinton, he was the main proponent for including China into the WTO. Of course in hopes China will liberalized in due time after tasting the fruits of a capital market. A serious miscalculation. Instead of liberalizing China manipulated the markets while staying true to who they are.

IceJad · Jul 4, 2024

public hermit said:
No, I do understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree, but RFK sucks as the spokesperson for the argument. I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by him. Does he strike you as reasonable? He does not seem reasonable to me. I just don't thinks he's somehow special for making an argument that is well known.

Here you go: Bring manufacturing back here.
See, I said it and didn't enlist RFK as support.

No American politician alarms me anymore. Nor do I know all their history and deeds. He made a point and I find that point salient. I always believe that the merit of an argument is in the thought points presented not the presenter.

If a child would to make that point it wouldn't be any less valid to me than say Elon Musk. Great people can make poor arguments as can regular people make great arguments. Give credit where credit is due. Or as Jesus said render unto Caesar what is his and to God what is God's.

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

RoBo1988 said:
"When the debate is lost, insults become the losers tool"

So why are you calling " loser!"?

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

IceJad said:
It is definitely Clinton, he was the main proponent for including China into the WTO. Of course in hopes China will liberalized in due time after tasting the fruits of a capital market. A serious miscalculation. Instead of liberalizing China manipulated the markets while staying true to who they are.

Seeing opportunity, acting on it, and staying true
to one's self.
The USA might consider doing that.

RoBo1988 · Jul 4, 2024

Astrid said:
So why are you calling " loser!"?

I shared the article/video of RFK; straightaway and without any substance, there was an insult about Mr Kennedy, and sarcasm about the quality of my post.

Maybe they were bored and had nothing to say, and this thread was an easy target for their vitriol.

Ted-01 · Jul 4, 2024

Astrid said:
Seeing opportunity, acting on it, and staying true
to one's self.
The USA might consider doing that.

Hmm, wouldn't that imply that the citizens of the USA actually had some kind of unified sense of self?
To me, that seems overly optimistic, because I don't think that we do... anymore.

RoBo1988 · Jul 4, 2024

IceJad said:
It is definitely Clinton, he was the main proponent for including China into the WTO. Of course in hopes China will liberalized in due time after tasting the fruits of a capital market. A serious miscalculation. Instead of liberalizing China manipulated the markets while staying true to who they are.

Clinton yes, but HW Bush also supported it as well.

NAFTA put the USA on a playing field, where many industries could not compete; due to regulation, and costs.

No reform was made in regulation, for the US to compete.
To use a sports analogy; It was akin to our competition getting a 20 yard field to score upon, while the USA still had 100 yards.

Now, if we find ourselves in a pinch either because of a war, epidemic, etc. we are at the mercy of other countries.

RoBo1988 · Jul 4, 2024

Ted-01 said:
Hmm, wouldn't that imply that the citizens of the USA actually had some kind of unified sense of self?
To me, that seems overly optimistic, because I don't think that we do... anymore.

There are the "elites" (for lack of a better term), and those who support them; and those in "flyover country" , that the former group strives to avoid.

No one sees the big picture.

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

Ted-01 said:
Hmm, wouldn't that imply that the citizens of the USA actually had some kind of unified sense of self?
To me, that seems overly optimistic, because I don't think that we do... anymore.

I guess.
It's still a good idea.
Any criticism of China for doing so is
of course misplaced.

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

RoBo1988 said:
There are the "elites" (for lack of a better term), and those who support them; and those in "flyover country" , that the former group strives to avoid.

No one sees the big picture.

Do you? What is it?

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

RoBo1988 said:
I shared the article/video of RFK; straightaway and without any substance, there was an insult about Mr Kennedy, and sarcasm about the quality of my post.

Maybe they were bored and had nothing to say, and this thread was an easy target for their vitriol.

So that's why you refer to others as losers.
Now "they" are bored and vitriolic too.

In addition to insulting, and sarcatic.

RoBo1988 · Jul 4, 2024

Astrid said:
So that's why you refer to others as losers.
Now "they" are bored and vitriolic too.

In addition to insulting, and sarcatic.

Lose the debate. Go back and read the quote. Thanks for playing.

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

RoBo1988 said:
Lose the debate. Go back and read the quote. Thanks for playing.

No tnx. The charm offensive is as
oxymoronic as it sounds

Merrill · Jul 4, 2024

public hermit said:
No, I do understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree, but RFK sucks as the spokesperson for the argument. I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by him. Does he strike you as reasonable? He does not seem reasonable to me. I just don't thinks he's somehow special for making an argument that is well known.

Here you go: Bring manufacturing back here.
See, I said it and didn't enlist RFK as support.

So here is the thing ...

You are spewing out talking-points which conveniently support the views and agendas of people who represent the status-quo, and who wish to see globalization expanded (in their interest).

Rather than talk about the issue-at-hand, which is the loss of American industrialization and increasing foreign dependence, you simply say "well the guy who is raising that alarm is an idiot, so we shouldn't talk about it"

this "useful idiot" stuff is pervasive on the American left.

Astrid · Jul 4, 2024

Merrill said:
So here is the thing ...

You are spewing out talking-points which conveniently support the views and agendas of people who represent the status-quo, and who wish to see globalization expanded (in their interest).

Rather than talk about the issue-at-hand, which is the loss of American industrialization and increasing foreign dependence, you simply say "well the guy who is raising that alarm is an idiot, so we shouldn't talk about it"

this "useful idiot" stuff is pervasive on the American left.

And ths right. Sts. ( sorry to say)

Laodicean60 · Jul 4, 2024

public hermit said:
No, I do understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree, but RFK sucks as the spokesperson for the argument. I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by him. Does he strike you as reasonable? He does not seem reasonable to me. I just don't thinks he's somehow special for making an argument that is well known.

Even though this thread is about manufacturing in the USA, who is your spokesperson for this topic? But you come here bad-mouthing the person on this topic without offering anything of use.

public hermit said:
Here you go: Bring manufacturing back here.
See, I said it and didn't enlist RFK as support.

Good, now can you talk about the difficulties in doing so today, or do you have someone else who has articulated the difficulties?

RFK is Right about this...

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