RFID in identification

[Maren]

I found this article on Yahoo! about the new policies for identification the US is putting into place and how there are potential problems where it will likely become easy to track peoples movements based on these tags.

"Government experts" claim that the id number on the tags won't be associated with personal information, per se, that it is just a way for government workers to confirm that your ID is valid. Yet, as the article shows, it becomes easy to identify an individual with an ID number.

Or one other possible use the article doesn't mention is businesses using these IDs to track employees or customers. For example, you walk into your favorite big box store and they have an RFID scanner at the door to note that you (or at least your ID number) came into the store. They also track when you leave and, if you make a purchase, they scan your ID at the register so they can record your visit (how long you stayed) and the amount of your purchase. Even without identifying you personally, they now have all the information of the shopping habits of their customers -- including everything you have bought in the store since the system went in. And, if they want to record personal information, the easiest way would be to offer some type of discount card (as many stores do) which then allows them to connect the discount card with the people who use the card (since typically people have one card for the family).

Staying away from the religious aspects of the discussion (such as the "mark of the beast"), do you worry about the privacy implications as these ID cards become mandatory in the US?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Actually, the RFID chips have been in any US passport issued within the last 3 years. 3 states already started putting them in the drivers licenses and they're planning on having the other states up to speed within the next 5 years.

Scary stuff...Another case of illuminati attempting to run our lives.

 

[yasic]

I personally do not see this as a negative aspect.

If a store wishes to use the chip to record the habits of their customers then may do so as long as they make it clear that they are doing so (aka make a deal, in exchange for offering their services you agree to have the following information about you tracked)

Likewise, I see no reason that information about your whereabouts and habits should not be tracked by the government. I do say that to access the information a valid warrant must exist, however the tracking if the information in and of itself is not a bad thing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I personally do not see this as a negative aspect.

If a store wishes to use the chip to record the habits of their customers then may do so as long as they make it clear that they are doing so (aka make a deal, in exchange for offering their services you agree to have the following information about you tracked)

Likewise, I see no reason that information about your whereabouts and habits should not be tracked by the government. I do say that to access the information a valid warrant must exist, however the tracking if the information in and of itself is not a bad thing.

While I agree that trackability has its benefits, it's still another step towards giving the Fed's too much control.

You mentioned that it'd be okay as long as they got a warrant first...the problem with this is once we give them too much power, we'll cross the line at which we won't be declare the terms of use or conditions anymore. Once they have the ability to track you and have data about all of your accounts and the ability to stop you from accessing it, what's to stop them from just disregarding the whole warrant formality and doing whatever they want?

They've already been toying with the notion of just implanting the RFID chip in kids as they're born. Right now the idea is unthinkable, but if we slowly give them more and more liberties with these chips, one day, the idea of tracking chips in people won't seem all that unrealistic.

 

[yasic]

While I agree that trackability has its benefits, it's still another step towards giving the Fed's too much control.

You mentioned that it'd be okay as long as they got a warrant first...the problem with this is once we give them too much power, we'll cross the line at which we won't be declare the terms of use or conditions anymore. Once they have the ability to track you and have data about all of your accounts and the ability to stop you from accessing it, what's to stop them from just disregarding the whole warrant formality and doing whatever they want?

They've already been toying with the notion of just implanting the RFID chip in kids as they're born. Right now the idea is unthinkable, but if we slowly give them more and more liberties with these chips, one day, the idea of tracking chips in people won't seem all that unrealistic.

Your argument goes for a police force just as much as for the chip. Whats the stop the government from using the police to arrest those who oppose their views? How will we prevent them from just disregarding the warrant issue all together? How does this differ from them stopping using warrants for RFID chips?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Your argument goes for a police force just as much as for the chip. Whats the stop the government from using the police to arrest those who oppose their views? How will we prevent them from just disregarding the warrant issue all together? How does this differ from them stopping using warrants for RFID chips?

Well, right now if they want to illegally arrest someone, they have to find them first

With the chip, it'll take away your ability to escape.

 

[frost1]

myself i would not use it unless i had to, or i would shop at a place that didn't use it. i don't beleave in it except for prisoners- implants. as far as the government obtaining your information or tracking you, they already can do that with what i've seen and run into at alot of facilities that i've worked at. things that can't go into but they would make you think twice about alot of things on how the government works.

 

[trunks2k]

In terms of being tracked by the government, you have a lot more to worry about if you carry a cell phone around with you than an RFID tag. Granted, there is nothing in place at the moment that does accurate constant tracking via cell phones on a wide scale, but it is possible and at a cheaper cost than wide scale RFID tracking.

I'm not too concerned about RFID. One just has to make sure tags are secured properly, which is certainly possible.

 

[ArteestX]

....do you worry about the privacy implications as these ID cards become mandatory in the US?

Yeah somewhat. A lot of what you describe has already been going on for years (in terms of using discount cards to track people's buying habits) and the worst part so far has been the glut of annoying junk mail. But I can imagine something like in the sci-fi movie (I want to say Minority Report, but I'm not sure) where as people walk down the street, huge ads appear calling out your name, saying "don't you want buy something for your sister Alice, whose birthday is next week?" and such. There is something creepy stalkerish about it all.

But I think as long as we are open about how it's used, and have some good regulations about how it can be used, I think it'll be ok. As for the government being able to find us, I don't see that as a problem as long as there is sufficient oversight over law enforcement by the other branches to ensure that it's being used properly. Of course, W proved that you can get around that sometimes, so we all need to step up and call out our government when they misuse their power and avoid transparency to do things that are questionable (for example, oh I don't know, supporting criminal investgations on torture?).