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Revolutionary Girl Utena

PassionFruit

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I know there are threads talking about this series, but they were really old so I wanted to start a new one. I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with Revolutionary Girl Utena (both anime and manga).

And if so, are you able to understand it and what do you think it means? Or do you have trouble with it? I ask because it's one of those animes that you can't just sit and watch, there's a lot you have to take in. The symbolism in my opinion makes it difficult to understand, I can deal with surrealism and the metaphysical, but symbolism? :argh:
 

PassionFruit

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That is such a good manga. I like the story line although I haven't read the 3rd one yet... I have no idea what the symbolism is about but its a good story
The manga is much easier to follow. It's not drenched in symbolism like the anime or the movie. I think with the manga it's more of the typical shoujo romance thing. The story line is still interesting, though.
 
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shirono

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I read most of manga and watched the movie a couple of times. I've only watched the first 2 episodes of the manga though. I really like all of the show/movie/manga, but I have to say that the movie is a bit like a really bad acid induced dream...
I don't think the directors were even sure what all the symbolism meant. I meant the ending? Seriously guys?
 
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PassionFruit

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I read most of manga and watched the movie a couple of times. I've only watched the first 2 episodes of the manga though. I really like all of the show/movie/manga, but I have to say that the movie is a bit like a really bad acid induced dream...
I don't think the directors were even sure what all the symbolism meant. I meant the ending? Seriously guys?


LOL. Yeah, the ending in the movie was rather.........vague. Then that's probably not the right word. Kunihiko Ikuhara was the director. I'll be the first to admit, he is very strange. I mean really strange, but he wants the viewer to interpret what's happening in the story. So I'm not surprised by your reaction. :p
 
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Wackotic

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Never heard of it. :)

[post will include a lot of my religious preferences, which are Christian as I would probably not include it on most other forums, in case it could bother people but I will put that in a diff color text.]

It is my favorite work of fiction, actually, and it does deal with a lot of taboo subjects and implied homosexuality, I still think it's something that is highly intellectual and has themes I can appreciate as a Christian and as a human being (most of the taboo is veiled and a lot of what is suspect helps emphasize what kind of world Ohtori is. Nothing graphic and not really vulgar visual wise or language). I highly recommend the anime series. The movie is not really my cup of tea because it tries to cover too much material in such a short time span and is really out there. If you have a problem with homosexuality, the movie might bug you (I don't have a problem, I even ship Utena and Anthy more than any fictional pairing, but I am just saying).

Haven't read the manga.

But it is fascinating on many levels. Do check it out. It intertwines a lot of biblical allegory and unintentional allegory.
[spoilers from a Christian perspective]
I first saw the anime about a year ago and fell in love with it. It was a year after I had a falling out with my faith and the ending of the anime admittedly stung at my heart with the possible religious allegory of dying to save another (i.e. crucifixion, even the swords look like nails when they are about to drive into Utena). It was the sort of love I associated with Christ's love and it suddenly became so real to me and convicted me of a very legalistic though devout faith I had a few years prior.

I connect a lot of the themes with my faith and think Utena is a very good role-model to emulate (when she's doing the right thing and not sleeping with a guy who represents Lucifer...but we all have been guilty of that on an allegorical level).

The symbolism is extremely deep and I see a lot of allegories and a lot of themes that would take many threads to talk about.

But on a personal level, I see Ohtori as being symbolic of the world (in the biblical sense), Akio as what he is meant to represent, and Dios as what he is meant to represent. I see Utena as conquering through her own faith and nobility (akin to righteousness motivated out of a selfless love for Anthy). Even the concept of being in coffins and operating under delusion makes me think of the theme of Christ lifting us from our coffins (what Dios did and what Utena did), bearing our sins and suffering (Utena's sacrifice).

I find it interesting that Utena wins every duel almost by channeling Dios' spirit as a vessel. Sound familiar? Yeah. It's called having the Power of Dios.

I don't really think the creators had a particular faith too much in mind when creating the series, but the symbols are striking and do draw on Judeo-Christian concepts. Such as being baptised before ascending to the duel arena.

---------
[still spoilers]
From a general perspective, I think the interpretations are just so vast and I like examining it from a myriad of possibilities (not just religious, but it's sometimes fun to discuss it)

Some of the symbols are pretty obvious, car = adult power, for instance.

I do think main canon themes really are the shedding off of childhood but not submitting to corruption associated with adult hood. After all, for Utena to graduate from the school (and becoming an adult) she has to abandon her childish delusions of finding a prince to live happily ever after with and make a real sacrifice, a very adult like thing to do and a very adult decision. Even Akio, the 'real adult' is not able to sacrifice himself for another (adulthood is about sacrifices, such as if you want a family...sacrifice) and is confined to the school which prevents anyone from growing up. So it is about maturity. It is about defying boundaries and roles and 'stripping down to nothing' to be oneself. It's about abandoning scripted roles such as being the Rose Bride, the Princess, or the Prince. In the end, I believe, Utena is free to be Utena in the outside world and Anthy is free to be Anthy. I find immense value in that, personally, and it has been even inspirational for how I approach my own faith, now, after having in the past killed the purity of it by trying so hard to be something I was not and to forget it's about love. And I think the love between Utena and Anthy (whether we want to call it friendship or more makes little difference to me) is a fine example of how love is...forgiveness, selflessness, sacrifice, compassion, etc.

Regardless of how you see it, I think an important element is being true to yourself and also doing the right thing out of a sense of love. And that seems to be true nobility and the key to being free.

For people who really want to dig deeply into the series, I recommend Empty Movement: Your daily dose of Shoujo Kakumei Utena! As it has just about everything there.

I have written a number of essays and musings on the series, myself, including links to Christianity and Buddhism (as the protagonist can be potentially seen as a Christ figure and a Siddhartha figure).

But what I like is that there are so many symbols and allegories and meanings intertwined that it really is something you could study on a college level as if it were a book.
 
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PassionFruit

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I connect a lot of the themes with my faith and think Utena is a very good role-model to emulate (when she's doing the right thing and not sleeping with a guy who represents Lucifer...but we all have been guilty of that on an allegorical level).

The symbolism is extremely deep and I see a lot of allegories and a lot of themes that would take many threads to talk about.

But on a personal level, I see Ohtori as being symbolic of the world (in the biblical sense), Akio as what he is meant to represent, and Dios as what he is meant to represent. I see Utena as conquering through her own faith and nobility (akin to righteousness motivated out of a selfless love for Anthy). Even the concept of being in coffins and operating under delusion makes me think of the theme of Christ lifting us from our coffins (what Dios did and what Utena did), bearing our sins and suffering (Utena's sacrifice).

I find it interesting that Utena wins every duel almost by channeling Dios' spirit as a vessel. Sound familiar? Yeah. It's called having the Power of Dios.

I don't really think the creators had a particular faith too much in mind when creating the series, but the symbols are striking and do draw on Judeo-Christian concepts. Such as being baptised before ascending to the duel arena.
I don't think it's wrong to see it that way. Having watched the series several times I too have come to noticed the Judeo Christian symbolism. I think because it's a such complex anime there are many ways to interpret the symbolism. I look at it from a feminist perspective mainly because I am one. :p

I think she is a good role model, despite being seduced by Akio, but the reason why she succumb to him was (I think) because of her naivety and innocence. That's one of thing the things I like about SKU is even the good characters do things that the viewers would consider morally wrong.

I do think main canon themes really are the shedding off of childhood but not submitting to corruption associated with adult hood. After all, for Utena to graduate from the school (and becoming an adult) she has to abandon her childish delusions of finding a prince to live happily ever after with and make a real sacrifice, a very adult like thing to do and a very adult decision. Even Akio, the 'real adult' is not able to sacrifice himself for another (adulthood is about sacrifices, such as if you want a family...sacrifice) and is confined to the school which prevents anyone from growing up. So it is about maturity. It is about defying boundaries and roles and 'stripping down to nothing' to be oneself. It's about abandoning scripted roles such as being the Rose Bride, the Princess, or the Prince. In the end, I believe, Utena is free to be Utena in the outside world and Anthy is free to be Anthy. I find immense value in that, personally, and it has been even inspirational for how I approach my own faith, now, after having in the past killed the purity of it by trying so hard to be something I was not and to forget it's about love. And I think the love between Utena and Anthy (whether we want to call it friendship or more makes little difference to me) is a fine example of how love is...forgiveness, selflessness, sacrifice, compassion, etc.
Yes I agree with you about how it's about moving from childhood to adulthood. Revolutionizing the world could simply mean moving on to adulthood or having the power that adults have.

I also agree with you about stripping down scripted roles, but more from a feminist perspective. This is another reason why I love the series so much. There is so much commentary about gender roles and subverting them. Utena wants to be a prince, not wait for one to come and rescue her. She dresses up in boys clothes, but at the same time, she doesn't give up her femininity. She's a girl, but is noble, a quality that we're supposed to associate with men. Dios/Akio to me, represents more of a "failed" prince if you will. Yes he loves and cares (I think somewhere in is heart he does) for both Anthy and Utena, but he sucks as being a prince. Then you have Anthy, who is represents the "evil witch." For taking the prince away from the world, so the world is punishing her.


I find it interesting you look at it from that perspective. I'm assuming that some Christians (depending on what kind you are) maybe be put off by SKU. For one, due to the same sex attractions that many of the characters have. Heck, Juri for example, she's a total lesbian. While the anime is not pornographic it's quite sexual. Kozue is another example, she sleeps around of course mainly to get attention from her brother, but she still does it. And perhaps it just me, but I can't ignore the slight yaoi/shonen ai subtext between Touga and Saionji. And then you have the incest. The movie is more sexual and Anthy is more sexually aggressive.

Anywho that's my take. :)

Thanks for sharing your views.
 
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