• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Revelation Study - Verse by Verse

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Just to do something different and to try and get some input and responses I thought that I would go verse by verse in the book of The Revelation.

As I have talked with and taught people now for longer than I can remember, it seems that everyone knows all about the 2nd Coming of Christ and the Revelation He gave to John...……..until they begin to talk. So with that in mind I thought I would share with you what I believe and have learned.

Please focus one the Specific Scripture at hand and don't go of down a rabbit hole

Revelation 1:1...….
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"


The theme of the book is clearly given and also who gives it.

1).
The theme is to give those people who are alive just before Christ comes again the signs or things happening at that time.

2).
The author is the Lord Jesus Christ.

First of all, no one knows the exact day of the Second Coming. Do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of Satan and believe what some person tells you. When someone wants you to buy their book or CD, they are LIEING!!!!!

First of all, it must be understood that neither YOU or ANYONE else does not know when this event will take place.

Matthew 24:36...…...
"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

This is not up for debate. When Jesus says NO ONE knows, then NO ONE KNOWS.

Now lets consider Matthew 24:34...……….
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

"This generation" is the key for Context. No one living when Jesus spoke those words lived to see "ALL THESE THINGS" come to pass.

The original Greek word used here can mean...."RACE" or FAMILY". That makes perfect sense in this context as the Jewish race has been preserved now for the past 2000 years. In spite of terrible persecution the Lord Jesus has kept that race of people and they exist now in the Promised land of which He gave to them going all the way back to Exodus.

"Revelation" means …….Uncovering or unveiling. So the question then must be----what is the revealing of?

The "THINGS" or EVENTS are those found in Daniels 70th Week or "Jacobs Trouble and some call this coming time as "The Tribulation Period".

If you are inclined to study deeply the Word of God, I would suggest at this time you read Daniel 7 thru 12 or at least have your Bible open to those passages.

Secondly, the key of understanding then is given to us in Matthew 24:32-34...……………..
'Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

I am one who believes that this happened on May 14th, 1948. On that day, the U.N. Security Council voted 15-0 to give Palestine back to the Jews and named that land "ISRAEL". It is of course -- The Promised Land. That act placed the nation of Israel back into the Land just as God promised them.

That act then has set in motion God's prophetic time clock. You see, we have been living in the Day of Grace or as some say, the Church Age which began when Jesus died and rose from the dead. God placed a "Time out" as you will or a GAP which is the time between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy.
(Read Daniel 9:23-27).

Messiah Jesus was "Cut Off" / Crucified exactly as Daniel said after the 62nd Week. So the SEVENTY WEEKS seen in Daniel 9:24 has not yet been lived hence the Church Age or Day of Grace we now live in. The EVENTS of Revelation 1:1 or the "Things" are then those events which will take place AFTER the 69th Week is completed which will actually be the 70th Week of Daniel.
 

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
13,831
5,697
European Union
✟237,109.00
Country
Czech Republic
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Revelation 1:1...….
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

....I am one who believes that this happened on May 14th, 1948.
I think you did not explain enough how "things which must soon come to pass" became "things that will come to pass after 1900 years".

Please, elaborate why you changed the meaning of the verse.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bmjackson

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 10, 2007
994
328
UK
✟361,460.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The things that must shortly come to pass, do so for all who are following the way of holiness, where Christ comes again to impart righteousness whereby a man is made one in Christ, as He did at Pentecost. He comes again when a man despairs of himself in his failures to follow Christ in the flesh, and is thereby enabled to walk in the Spirit and partake in the spiritual warfare of Revelation.
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
20,865
4,537
Midlands
Visit site
✟837,819.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I was reading this yesterday and I noted that there were 7 levels to this delivery.
  1. From God
  2. to Jesus "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him"
  3. to the angel of Jesus "sent and signified it by his angel"
  4. to John "unto his servant John"
  5. to the Churches "send it unto the seven churches"
  6. to the angels of the seven churches "Unto the angel of the church of______"
  7. to the servants. "to shew unto his servants"
 
Upvote 0

frank sears

Active Member
Jul 26, 2022
105
75
81
Searcy,ar
✟25,904.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Revelations was given to the christians who lived at that time, and the next generation, and including us today, and those who will be alive at the time of Christ return, because that is what the Bible says. Each christian has to decide what Revelations means...and that is not easy!!! At least a good part of it, some of it is fairly clear. Did no one living at the time of Jesus see all those things come to pass? Sure, John did,he was allowed to look into the future and see all those things come to pass, and write about it.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think you did not explain enough how "things which must soon come to pass" became "things that will come to pass after 1900 years".

Please, elaborate why you changed the meaning of the verse.

With all due respect, I have re-read my post and I can not find........
""things that will come to pass after 1900 years".

I did say.........
"The original Greek word used here can mean...."RACE" or FAMILY". That makes perfect sense in this context as the Jewish race has been preserved now for the past 2000 years."

Then I said............
""Things" are then those events which will take place AFTER the 69th Week is completed which will actually be the 70th Week of Daniel."

If you notice, I did not change anything. So feel free to show me that quote or elaborate. I may not have given you what you wanted but this is an open forum and you are certainly free to add your perspective.

I would say also that "things which must shortly come to pass"
in the Original Greek, the word "SHORTLY" means SWIFTLY.

It means, IMHO that when these events start to happen, they will take place in a hurry with no waiting around for them to happpen.

Now, IF....IF John had the idea that ""things which must shortly come to pass" to mean right after he wrote the Revelation in 95 AD,
the reality is that from then to today has been 1927 years or a "gap".
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I was reading this yesterday and I noted that there were 7 levels to this delivery.
  1. From God
  2. to Jesus "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him"
  3. to the angel of Jesus "sent and signified it by his angel"
  4. to John "unto his servant John"
  5. to the Churches "send it unto the seven churches"
  6. to the angels of the seven churches "Unto the angel of the church of______"
  7. to the servants. "to shew unto his servants"

Scholars -which I am NOT, differ on whether the book of Revelation should be thought of as a disclosure about Jesus Christ or a disclosure from Him. Likely, it is both since the Father and the Son are one!
 
Upvote 0

frank sears

Active Member
Jul 26, 2022
105
75
81
Searcy,ar
✟25,904.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
If there is a person out there who can honestly explain Matt 24:34 then I would like to meet him or her. The context, that when Jesus said "generation", that he was speaking of His contemporaries, is beyond doubt, the context proving it. If He meant a future generation then that would have to mean a secondary fulfillment.
 
Upvote 0

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
13,831
5,697
European Union
✟237,109.00
Country
Czech Republic
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I would say also that "things which must shortly come to pass"
in the Original Greek, the word "SHORTLY" means SWIFTLY.

It means, IMHO that when these events start to happen, they will take place in a hurry with no waiting around for them to happpen.
This is not a good explanation. Because "to happen shortly" and "to happen soon" are the same thing in the context.

Explaining it otherwise takes out any meaning from the verse that is used as the first sentence in the book.

If, for any personal reason, you still want to push it, check also other warnings about Revelation happening soon, with other Greek words used, for example Rev 1:3 (just two verses later):
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Now, IF....IF John had the idea that ""things which must shortly come to pass" to mean right after he wrote the Revelation in 95 AD,
the reality is that from then to today has been 1927 years or a "gap".
The Revelation was written before 70 AD, probably in 68 AD or so. Its the only dating that makes sense regarding what the text itself says.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
This is not a good explanation. Because "to happen shortly" and "to happen soon" are the same thing in the context.

Explaining it otherwise takes out any meaning from the verse that is used as the first sentence in the book.

If, for any personal reason, you still want to push it, check also other warnings about Revelation happening soon, with other Greek words used, for example Rev 1:3 (just two verses later):
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Nope. Whether you accept the explination or not is totally up to you.
It is what it is!!

The Revelation was written before 70 AD, probably in 68 AD or so. Its the only dating that makes sense regarding what the text itself says.

I do not agree with your opinion. The only reason to have an early date is to promote PRETERISM.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If there is a person out there who can honestly explain Matt 24:34 then I would like to meet him or her. The context, that when Jesus said "generation", that he was speaking of His contemporaries, is beyond doubt, the context proving it. If He meant a future generation then that would have to mean a secondary fulfillment.

It seems that as a Full preterist, you believe that Jesus returned in AD 70, meaning His generation had not died out before His own return. Those holding such a view believe the destruction of the temple by the Roman Empire in that year fulfilled this prophecy.

A major problem with this stance is that the temple's ruin came after a long period of misery in Jerusalem—it was not a precursor of it. Jesus' depiction of the "abomination" was as a sign of impending danger (Matthew 24:16). Likewise, the events He speaks of are said to threaten the survival of humanity, itself (Matthew 24:22).

Most all non-preterists accept the obviouse which is described that those alive much later when the final signs before Jesus' return appear in the skies. Christ stated earlier that the generation who heard Him speak, in person, on earth, would not be privy to the onset of His kingdom (Matthew 21:43).

Most all interpretation of the end times implies a seven-year period, often referred to as the "tribulation." The second half of this is known as the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21).

That period will be initiated by some catastrophic defilement of the temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15). By that interpretation, those who are alive on earth can interpret the "abomination" and proceeding events as clear signs that Christ is about to return.

That is where I am coming from and will continue as such.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Revelations was given to the christians who lived at that time, and the next generation, and including us today, and those who will be alive at the time of Christ return, because that is what the Bible says. Each christian has to decide what Revelations means...and that is not easy!!! At least a good part of it, some of it is fairly clear. Did no one living at the time of Jesus see all those things come to pass? Sure, John did,he was allowed to look into the future and see all those things come to pass, and write about it.

You said..........
"Each christian has to decide what Revelations means"

NOPE! Why do you think that the Revelation, the Word of God is any different than any other Bible book?

By you definition, we can then make what is written in the Revelation to mean what ever we want it to mean and THAT is why you are confused.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
REVELATION 1:2.........
"Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw."


John is told to bear record of 3 things...…….

1). The Word of God.
2). The testimony of Christ.
3). All the things he saw.

Lots and lots of people accept ESP. Many believe the rantings of Nostradamus. Some people just believe anything that is said to them and of course we all know that everything on the internet is always the truth.

What sets apart our God and His book of truth from all the other gods and nonsense and religious dogma, is that Gods book tells the future with 100% accuracy.

There are four principle viewpoints concerning the interpretation of the Revelation.

1). Preterist.
This view says that the events in the book were already fulfilled in the early history of the church. Of all the views in theology, the Preterist view is the most dangerous. It produces one of the most extreme forms of theology which is Replacement Theology.

2). Historical.
This view sees the book as portraying a panorama of the history of the church from the days of John to the end of time.

3). Idealist.
This view considers the book as a pictorial unfolding of great priciples in constant conflict without reference as prophecy at all. Some would say that it is ALAGORICAL and this theology allows man to believe whatever he wants to believe instead of ACCEPTING what is actually written.

4. Futurist.
This view sees most of the book, chapters 4 to the end as prophecy yet to be fulfilled. The Futurist view is the one I entertain. I have studied all the others and the Futurist view is the one that fits together completely with no work or manipulations to make anything understandable.
It will be the point from which I come from.

Christ Jesus is the center of the prophecy. Everything revolves around Him and for Him.

Colossians 1:16-17 ..............
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

So then, that being understood we see in verse 2...….."Bare record".

That means John was a witness of what he wrote. He SAW the revelation and wrote down what he saw.

Now allow me to give you the key to understanding why some of the Revelation seems to be complicated. John, while on the island of Patmos was allowed to SEE the events that were to take place in the future. Some believe that he was seeing a vision and some believe that he was actually transported by the Holy Spirit into the future and then told to record what he saw. Either one of those explanations is acceptable to me.

The problem is that he did not understand what he was seeing. He was faithful to write it all down as best he could with the mind set he has as a man living in the 1st century.

What he was seeing was 2000 years in the future so he did not have the ability to translate what he SAW to what he knew to describe.


After we leave chapter 3, that will become more obvious as he will then be talking about future things and events.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation 1:3...…….
'Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.'


Why read the Revelation????
Why do the study of a book so filled with symbols and innuendos??? Why study things that are so hard to understand?

Some people who believe in the "Catching Away" say...……
"We will not be here so why be concerned?"

The answer is right here in front of us and it is only found in this one verse.
"BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO READS AND THOSE THAT HEAR THE WORDS OF THIS PROPHESY".

God promises a blessing to those who read this book and those who hear. Now think for just a moment.
Why would God promise a blessing to us if the words are too hard to understand???

Another very important reality is that in John's day, the early church, there were only a few people who could read.
So the more who read the Revelation blessed those who could not read.

Our understanding the Revelation is not the problem...IMO.
The problem is a lack of STUDY on our part so as to be able to grasp what God has said.

That can also be said of the other Scriptures in the Bible. Sometimes.....we must get rid of wrong teaching so as to be able to understand correct exegesis and that is the problem of a lot of people. Some people are so convinced in what they know that they become UNTEACHABLE. In other words......
they know what they like and like what they know, even if what that is......IS WRONG.


50 years ago I was a District manager of a large retail chain. One of the things that we saw from people we hired is that they would bring experience from another retail business but some of it was WRONG. The new associates had to be taught to FORGET the wrong stuff before they could learn the RIGHT stuff.

In that reality, it was better to know nothing about retail sales than to incorporate the OLD WRONG stuff with the NEW RIGHT stuff.

Bible study for some people can be the same way.

Example...…..Verse 3 we see these words----
"Because the end is close at hand".

It has already been asked right here from the 1st verse posted about "soon" to that generation.

Now some people will say that means Jesus is coming next week or next year. However that is not the way it is to be understood.

What it means in the CONTEXT of all the prophetic Scriptures is that WHEN those things begin to take place, they will move very quickly because there will be only 7 years until Armageddon.

Daniel 9:27 tells us...…………..
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

"COVENANT" here is a peace treaty.
"HE" in verse 27 is the coming Anti-Christ.
"ONE WEEK" here is Seven (7) Years.
"Even until the consummation" is Armageddon.

So then, we see that the coming A/C will make a peace treaty for 7 years between Israel and those at war with them.

I would suggest right here a good reading for CONTEXT would be Ezekiel 38-39……..

"And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee."

For there to be a PEACE TREATY there must 1st be a war/conflict. It seems to me that Ezekiel 38 is describing that very event to us.

The ABOMINATIONS are the judgments of God that will fall unto the people left on the Earth after the Catching Away. From the Catching Away to Armageddon is 7 years.

That...…..again means when the events start, they will move very fast.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation 1:4...………….
"John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne".


John is addressing Seven local churches in Asia Minor or our present day Turkey.

Allow me to call your attention to the number Seven. Seven stands for "Complete". The number Seven has to do with God's covenant and dealings with Israel. The Sabbath, circumcision and worship are all hinged around the SEVENTH Day.

Some examples are...…….

1). Jericho was marched around SEVEN times.
2). Naaman was dipped in the Jordan River SEVEN times.
3). In Joseph's day, there was SEVEN years of plenty and SEVEN years of famine.
4). Nebuchadnezzar was insane for SEVEN years.
5). There are SEVEN Beatitudes in the New Test.
6). There are SEVEN petitions in the Lord's prayer.
7). There are SEVEN parabels in Matthew 13.
8). SEVEN loaves of bread fed the multitude.
9). Jesus spoke SEVEN times from the cross.
10).There are SEVEN Spirits.
11). SEVEN stars.
12).SEVEN candlesticks.
13).SEVEN Trumpets judgments.
14).SEVEN Bowl judgments.
15). SEVEN days in a week.
16).SEVEN basis colors.
17). SEVEN basic musical notes.
18).The cells in our bodies changes every SEVEN years.

IMO, the number SEVEN in the Revelation can not be ignored or thought to be an accident or coincidence. It is one of the KEYS to understanding the symbols contained in the book and if you miss that, you will come up with the wrong understanding.

So then, we see here in the 4th verse, SEVEN churches. That means the SEVEN churches are "Inclusive" of all churches.

John says...……"Grace be unto you and peace".

Peace flows from grace and grace is the source of all our blessings from God today. The Revelation reveals the grace of God and also peace from God. That means we do not need neither should we be frightened as you read and study this book. We can and should have the peace of God in our hearts.

Then notice that the information is ………."From Him, and from the SEVEN Spirits. That brings the Trinity before us.
The..."SEVEN SPIRITS" refers to the Holy Spirit and IMO it also refers to the SEVEN branches of the Lampstand that was in the Tabernacle. More on that when we get to it.

Then we see...………"Which is, and which was and which is to come".

That emphasizes the eternity and immutability of God. Notice.

Notice now the mention of each member of the Trinity.
1). In the next verse #5 is Jesus Christ who is God the Son.
2). The "SEVEN Spirits is God the Holy Spirit.
3). "Him which is and which was and which is to come refers to God the Father.

COMMENTS???? Please focus on this Scripture and lets not go chasing rabbits and lose the purpose of the thread!!!
 
Upvote 0

sawdust

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
3,576
600
69
Darwin
✟213,272.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If there is a person out there who can honestly explain Matt 24:34 then I would like to meet him or her. The context, that when Jesus said "generation", that he was speaking of His contemporaries, is beyond doubt, the context proving it. If He meant a future generation then that would have to mean a secondary fulfillment.

The way I read it, Jesus is speaking of the generation that sees all the things He has been talking about in vs.15-31 as that is what the proceeding verse says. The "this generation" of v.34 is the same generation that sees all these things.

Matt.24:33&34
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


And you can't say John saw all these things therefore it all happened in the first century because Daniel saw them too. :)
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The way I read it, Jesus is speaking of the generation that sees all the things He has been talking about in vs.15-31 as that is what the proceeding verse says. The "this generation" of v.34 is the same generation that sees all these things.

Matt.24:33&34
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


And you can't say John saw all these things therefore it all happened in the first century because Daniel saw them too. :)

I would say to you 1st of all....John wrote the Rev. in 95 AD which is about 25 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

HE KNEW what had happened so the events he wrote about could not have already taken place.

In chapter four of verse one in the book of Revelation,
"Now after these things," After what things?

The things of the church. In chapters two and three;
"I saw a door open in heaven, the first voice as of a trumpet saying to me, come up hither and I am going to show you things are going to be after these church things. And immediately I was caught up by the Spirit, I saw the throne of God."

And he describes it, chapter five, he describes the scroll in the right hand of Him, who is sitting upon the throne, and the worship and glory that is given to Christ, when He takes the scroll, and assumes the authority and power that is His.

Chapter six He begins to break the seals of this scroll, and as He does, first of all the white horse with his rider, the antichrist coming over, taking over the earth, followed by the wars, and the famines, and the death. And then we proceed on into the Great Tribulation period, yet future.
 
Upvote 0

sawdust

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
3,576
600
69
Darwin
✟213,272.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would say to you 1st of all....John wrote the Rev. in 95 AD which is about 25 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

HE KNEW what had happened so the events he wrote about could not have already taken place.

In chapter four of verse one in the book of Revelation,
"Now after these things," After what things?

The things of the church. In chapters two and three;
"I saw a door open in heaven, the first voice as of a trumpet saying to me, come up hither and I am going to show you things are going to be after these church things. And immediately I was caught up by the Spirit, I saw the throne of God."

And he describes it, chapter five, he describes the scroll in the right hand of Him, who is sitting upon the throne, and the worship and glory that is given to Christ, when He takes the scroll, and assumes the authority and power that is His.

Chapter six He begins to break the seals of this scroll, and as He does, first of all the white horse with his rider, the antichrist coming over, taking over the earth, followed by the wars, and the famines, and the death. And then we proceed on into the Great Tribulation period, yet future.

I'm wondering if you may have misunderstood what I said as I'm not 100% sure how, what you have said here, applies. I agree what John wrote is predominately future (ie. "after these church things" as you put it).

I was responding to @frank sears post #5 (below) suggesting that because John was given the vision of what was to come, the "this generation" of Matt.24:34 must be the generation of Christ's contemporaries rather than a future generation.

Did no one living at the time of Jesus see all those things come to pass? Sure, John did,he was allowed to look into the future and see all those things come to pass, and write about it.

Also, fyi, I don't think the destruction of the Temple in 70AD is a part of the Great Tribulation.

I don't want to distract from what you are doing here, so it might be better for me to leave things alone. :)
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm wondering if you may have misunderstood what I said as I'm not 100% sure how, what you have said here, applies. I agree what John wrote is predominately future (ie. "after these church things" as you put it).

I was responding to @frank sears post #5 (below) suggesting that because John was given the vision of what was to come, the "this generation" of Matt.24:34 must be the generation of Christ's contemporaries rather than a future generation.



Also, fyi, I don't think the destruction of the Temple in 70AD is a part of the Great Tribulation.

I don't want to distract from what you are doing here, so it might be better for me to leave things alone. :)

Yes.....I misunderstood. I did not realize that you were posting to someone else.

Mr. Sears is a "Preterist" and as such his opinions will be flawed on the Last Days.

All Preterist theology has to twist and manufacture meanings from the Scriptures to make their agenda "FIT".
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟218,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation 1:5-6
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."


In these two verses we have the titles which are given to the Lord Jesus Christ and notice that there are SEVEN titles. SEVEN (7) is the Bible number for "complete".

1.
"Faithful Witness"------Jesus Christ is the only trustworthy witness to the facts of this book we call the Bible. The facts are about Him. He testifies of Himself.

2.
"First begotten of the dead"------"Firstborn" has to do with resurrection. He is the first to rise from the dead, never to die again. So then, death was a womb which bore Him. He came out of death into life. No one else has come that route yet. However, we who believe him are going to follow Him in resurrection power.

3.
"The Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth"----------This title refers to His position during His 1000 year rule that we call the Millennium.

Philippians 2:9-11 validate that fact...…..
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father."

4.
"Unto Him that loved us"----------That is the PRESENT tense and tells us of His attitude toward us, His own. Jesus did not just love us when He died for us.
He loved us before the Creation was ever done.

5.
"Washed (Loosed) us from our sins in His own blood"------------The blood of Jesus is not a symbol in the book of the Revelation. There are many symbolism in the book, but this is NOT one of them. ALL of the Old Testament sacrifices of animals, and all of the blood they shed was a shadow of what was coming. They were NOT the real thing...……..But the blood of Jesus IS THE REAL THING. It is what the animal sacrifice were pointing to all the way back to Adam and Eve when Jesus killed animals to obtain a covering for the sin of Adam and Eve.

1 Peter 1:18-19...…
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot".

6.
"And he hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father"...…………...Believers are never called KINGS. They are a kingdom of priests and in that sense will rule with Christ.
Jesus comes again as the BRIDEGROOM for His bride which is the company of born again believers. He comes as the lover of our spirits.

7.
"To Him the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. AMEN."-------------- "Forever and forever" can be translated literally as, "Ages of the Ages".
That emphasizes eternity. Christ is the AMEN. That is a title. Jesus Christ is both the subject and the object of the Revelation. HE is the mover of all events and because of that, THERE IS NO SUCH THIN AS A COINSIDENCE.

Jesus is the agent of creation. All things were made by Him, for Him and the universe exists for Him.

Colossians 1:16-17...…….
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
 
Upvote 0