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You do realize you're making my point? Did you read John 12:32?Sorry, heard this false argument before. Readers: notice how this same Greek word is used in other verses to "make known or to "indicate":
Jhn 12:33 This he said, signifying G4591 what death he should die.
Once again it makes my point. This passage is pointing to crucifixion (which ONLY Rome could do), and actually goes back to John 12:32 also...Jesus, being LIFTED UP (as He was on the cross). Again a sign or symbol of how he would die.Jhn 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying G4591 what death he should die.
You keep making my point Lamad! Look at John 21:18 where Jesus is prophesying to Peter:Jhn 21:19 This spake he, signifying G4591 by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
You're making my point again. Though this passage doesn't say HOW Agubus did this, he did it by sign or symbolic language from the Holy Spirit, which is what "semaino" means.Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified G4591 by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
This is the clincher. The passage is saying no charge made against Paul was a SIGN that he had committed a crime! The point being nothing said painted the picture of the charge was brought against Paul.Act 25:27 For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify G4591 the crimes laid against him.
Interesting you assume to know God's mind Lamad...especially when NOTHING speaks of a "church age". That is the erroneous interpretation that tries to MAKE the 7 existent churches Jesus had John wrote to church ages. Nothing can be further from the truth.Readers, DON'T BE FOOLED here. In the mind of God the CHURCH AGE is "tribulation."
You just showed the readers what you don't understand...but thanks for unintentionally making my point with those passages Lamad.Readers beware: DON'T BE DECEIVED by what sounds possible.
The usage of the vav consecutive and the Hebraized use of kai through the Bible would argue against Revelation being anything but sequential. On linguistic grounds, no argument but a sequential one can really be made. It is not as if you are given definite time periods such as in Daniel where you can know that the visions are presented in non-sequential order. There is no sealing up of the vision in Revelation. Revelation is written like Genesis, with one thing after the next in sequential order, as an unfolding, a scroll being unrolled.
There is even a big clue when it says,
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants, even the things which must imminently be coming to pass: and he sent and symbolized it by his angel to his servant John. - Rev. 1:1
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Sorry, heard this false argument before. Readers: notice how this same Greek word is used in other verses to "make known or to "indicate":You do realize you're making my point? Did you read John 12:32?
Jhn 12:33 This he said, signifying G4591 what death he should die.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
The narrative makes the point that Jesus being "LIFTED UP" (as he was on the cross) was a sign as to how He would die.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Jhn 18:32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying G4591 what death he should die.Once again it makes my point. This passage is pointing to crucifixion (which ONLY Rome could do), and actually goes back to John 12:32 also...Jesus, being LIFTED UP (as He was on the cross). Again a sign or symbol of how he would die.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Jhn 21:19 This spake he, signifying G4591 by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.You keep making my point Lamad! Look at John 21:18 where Jesus is prophesying to Peter:
8 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.”
The narrative of John 21:19 is telling you Jesus gave a sign in what He said, of how Peter would die.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified G4591 by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.You're making my point again. Though this passage doesn't say HOW Agubus did this, he did it by sign or symbolic language from the Holy Spirit, which is what "semaino" means.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Act 25:27 For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify G4591 the crimes laid against him.This is the clincher. The passage is saying no charge made against Paul was a SIGN that he had committed a crime! The point being nothing said painted the picture of the charge was brought against Paul.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Readers, DON'T BE FOOLED here. In the mind of God the CHURCH AGE is "tribulation."Interesting you assume to know God's mind Lamad...especially when NOTHING speaks of a "church age". That is the erroneous interpretation that tries to MAKE the 7 existent churches Jesus had John wrote to church ages. Nothing can be further from the truth.
Originally Posted by iamlamad
Readers beware: DON'T BE DECEIVED by what sounds possible.You just showed the readers what you don't understand...but thanks for unintentionally making my point with those passages Lamad.
The only way the book of Revelation could meet your requirement would be if the visions that John saw were presented to John in the sequence presented in the book. There is no way the events John saw could be in chronological order.
The harvest of chapter 14 cannot occur until the return of Christ.
It was symbolic prophecy: a foretelling of future events. Just as the verse "Look, I come like a thief!..." A prophecy cannot be out of sequence unless it is after the fact.
The birth of the man child and the fall of Satan in chapter 12 shows it to be a review of Church history.
This is written as a parenthesis with NO BEARING on chronology. Remember, John did not have the parenthesis marks that we have to show a parenthesis. We discover them my study and common sense. You have rightly discovered that these 5 verses do not fit in John's chronology. Just put a parenthesis around them and don't consider them for Chronology. The point is, what was written before these five verses and then after them is in Chronological order.
You, on the other hand, want to move the 6th seal to the 19th chapters, because in your theory that is where it should go. NOTHING about the 6th seal is written out of sequence or written as a parenthesis with no bearing on chronology. It is only your faulty theory that causes you to imagine it is out of sequence.
The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ in chapter 11, however the battle of Armageddon occurs later.
Faulty theory strikes again! There is NOTHING in these words that indicate Jesus coming or the battle of Armageddon. These verses are only indicated a CHANGE in ruler-ship: Satan lost, Jesus won. NO COMING. That is only your imagination. Why do you struggle so with this when John makes His REAL coming so clear?
The events at the end of chapter 6 describing the wrath of the Lamb occur at the battle of Armageddon.
Only in your wild imagination! Certainly not in John's thinking or the Holy Spirit's thinking.
Maybe your Greek terms do describe the order in which John saw the visions, but no more.
Actually the writer provides that information. Just as Jesus provided the information that Jonah, being in the belly of the fish was a SIGN.Ebedmelech wrote,
In EVERY CASE it is WORDS.....words just like in Revelation. Yes, there are symbols in Revelation, but most of them are found elsewhere in the bible. Maybe people wish to make what is NOT symbolic in Revelation but just plain text that makes sense in its literal sense into some kind of symbolic nonsense.
Jesus was INDICATING how He would die: by being lifted up. In those days all well understood what that meant.
The only thing missing Lamad is HOW Agabus spoke...and that is not provided. What is provided is that Agabus INDICATED there would be famine BY THE SPIRIT. I would hold that just as God often times speaks through His prophets by metaphor, allegory, or parable, Agabus did the same.Agabus INDICATED by the Holy Spirit that a famine was coming. No symbolism here; just words. Chances are about 100% that Agabus SPOKE.
That's not the point Lamad, the point is whatever that document said was not a SIGN, or evidence...or paint the picture, that a crime was committed. This is what Agrippa is saying.It was, without a doubt, a written document INDICATING the crimes the prisoner had committed that Festus was seeking. Again, just words: no symbols.
That would be your opinion, but the fact is...in every instance except that of Acts 27, symbols or signs are used to communicate.In all these cases the word INDICATE fits the texts better than the word symbolize. Now if they were writing in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, that might be another story.
John never claimed that he was in the great tribulation.
Revelation is about more than one scroll/book and in between the 6th seal
and the 7th -John saw visions.
I don't see the word - great.
tribulation and great tribulation are not the same times
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