Revelation 3:10 does not support a pre-trib rapture

[Bulldog]

Many use Revelation 3:10 as a way to back up the pre trib view.

Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that {hour} which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (NASB)

There are three main reasons why I do not buy this:

• First of all, there is no reason to think that "from", which is in the Greek ek would mean taking people off the face of the earth. Considiring the context and the ek, there's simply no reason to believe that.
• Second of all, the verse in just in reference to the church in Philadelphia.
  Revelation 3:7, right before 3:10 says:
  And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
  (emphasis mine)
• It speaks of the coming as "about to happen". Would "about to happen" mean something 1900+ years in the future?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Buldog

The Whole preterist argument that because it says about to happen or soon to be that means it had to happen ...........well soon for them.........


This whole argument falls apart within their own Doctrine as they do not believe judgement day has happened yet John is told.

6: And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7: Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Well Judgement day has not been done and it has been 1,900 years.

To God a day is as a Thousand years so shortly could mean three or four days it could mean ten or fifteen days which is actually 15,000 years if each day is as a 1,000 years.

You just can not use that as a system by which you look at prophecy.

 

[Bulldog]

Just The facts, is "about to happen" 1900+ years, even when it was specifically written to specific church that does not exist today?

 

[Eternalife]

"From" is ek and ekklesia "called-out ones", not a goshen since the only way God can keep such a promise is to be called out, raptured and received to the throne based on readiness. Fighting the Scriptures on this is showing the body of Christ you are not one of its members.

Rev. 2 and 3 do not speak to just one church but to all the churches. They speak to a church in their day, the church age according to timeline and to all churches. While the first 3 churches according to timeless are successive, the last 4 continue on to today, and today we are in Laodecian of dull, unspiritual, and lukewarm "differening opinions" which I am sure you can attest to. It speaks of what is going to happen in the future, to be kept from the Hour of the trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world which you can escape, if you keep the Word of His patience (Rev. 3.10) and are watchful, prayer, ready and matured (Luke 21.36) so that you will be taken if you are in that last generation (Matt. 24.37,40-41, Rev. 7.9, Rev. 12.5, 14.1).

 

[Dad Ernie]

"From" is ek and ekklesia "called-out ones", not a goshen since the only way God can keep such a promise is to be called out, raptured and received to the throne based on readiness. Fighting the Scriptures on this is showing the body of Christ you are not one of its members.

You defeat your own argument here my friend. According to you, every time someone joins the "ekklesia", they should be "raptured". How many do you know of so far?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Axver]

Pretribbers are grasping at straws when they try to use Revelation 3:10 to defend their view.

 

[Bulldog]

Rev. 2 and 3 do not speak to just one church but to all the churches.

Untrue, Revelation 3 is specifically written to specific churches.

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


(all emph. mine)

 

[Bulldog]

That means that evrything that it is written from verse 7 up to 14 is specifically to church in Philadelphia, from 1 up to seven is speifically to church in Sardis, and 14 to the end of the chapter specifically to the church of the Laodiceans.

 

[Donny_B]

If Philadelphia applied only to the local church, did verse 3:10 come to pass to them only? Were the Philadelphians of Asia Minor kept from the persecutions of their day? Or is there a deeper, spiritually discerned meaning?

If you study the history of the Church, you will see that each of the seven churches also fit a prophetic interpretation, from Sardis to Laodicea.

Also note the use of sevens: seven churches, seven stars, seven candlesticks, seven angels, the seven Spirits of God.

 

[Bulldog]

If Philadelphia applied only to the local church, did verse 3:10 come to pass to them only? Were the Philadelphians of Asia Minor kept from the persecutions of their day?

As a Bible-believing Christian, I would say yes to both of those.

If you study the history of the Church, you will see that each of the seven churches also fit a prophetic interpretation, from Sardis to Laodicea.

Also note the use of sevens: seven churches, seven stars, seven candlesticks, seven angels, the seven Spirits of God.

The number seven is used alot throughout the Bible, not just Revelation. Are you saying the letters to the three churches are not literal?

 

[Donny_B]

For the seven churches, I see both a local and prophetic application. I also see a personal application to individual believers and an application to all churches in all times.

 

[*Song Bird*]

the only way God can keep such a promise

This statement by eternal life is limeting God.

1Peter 1:7 that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
In Revalation we here a lot of the those that are told they’ll be blessed if they overcome.

Rev. 2:7(Ephesus) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
11 (Smyrna)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
17 (Pergamos)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
26 (Thyatira) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
3:5 (Sardis)He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12(Philadelphia) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 (Laodicea)To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

We are not told here what they are overcoming, but later in Revelation we find out.

Revelation 12 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.That’s exseactly what Jesus said he overcame…Satan, and death.

Each one of these churches had to OVERCOME the same thing, so they cannot be living in differnt time periods. These are the last 7 types of churches before the Tribulation. This means that these churches are not historical as many often misinterprete to fit with the Pre-Tribulational Rapture of Christians. Also, notice AFTER SARDIS, Jesus said HE WAS COMING QUICKLY. As we see they must overcome The Tribulation, death and the AntiChrist aka Satan. He's writting them to let them know so they'll be prepared, and then think of the joys he's promised during Tribulation..

Only those living 100% faithful to God will be supernaturally protected by him

some verses to support there's always a remnant...

Zechariah 13: 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God[…] After he comes with the saints and steps foot on the Mt of Olives etc…it says And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


Isaiah 26:1 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed upon thee, because he trusts in thee. Trust in the Lord foever; for in Yah, is everlasting strength. He bringeth down those who dwell on high[…] vs 20 Come my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee; hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the Earth for their iniquity; the Earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”

 

[teddybear123]

This is Jesus talking.

Revelation 3:10-Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This verse presents a promise that Christ will rapture genuine believers out of the world before the Tribulation period begins.The hour of temptation is the period of worldwide testing which has not yet occurred.(cf.Daneil 12:1;Matthew 24:21,29).Christ promises to keep them from the period of Tribulation.That is,they will not even enter into this period of history.The Tribulation is for the purpose of trying or judging them that dwell upon the earth,those who are connected to the earth and its system.Believers are not even inculded in this term (cf,Phil.3:18-20;1 Peter 2:11;Rev.6:10;11:10;13:8,12,14;!7:8).KJV.

God Bless.

 

[Eddielee]

This is Jesus talking.

Revelation 3:10-Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This verse presents a promise that Christ will rapture genuine believers out of the world before the Tribulation period begins.The hour of temptation is the period of worldwide testing which has not yet occurred.(cf.Daneil 12:1;Matthew 24:21,29).Christ promises to keep them from the period of Tribulation.That is,they will not even enter into this period of history.The Tribulation is for the purpose of trying or judging them that dwell upon the earth,those who are connected to the earth and its system.Believers are not even inculded in this term (cf,Phil.3:18-20;1 Peter 2:11;Rev.6:10;11:10;13:8,12,14;!7:8).KJV.

God Bless.

I don't think their is any evidence supporting this claim. The "hour of trial" and the "tribulation" do not seem to be the same period of time. Revelation 13 definately dipicts Christians going through the persecution of the beast.

The Hour of Trial comes upon the whole earth, by definition in the verse. The persecution of Satan only comes upon Christians; Satan does not persecute those who take the mark of the beast. The hour of trial, then, since it encompasses the entire earth, must be the wrath of God; 7 trumpet judgements and 7 vial judgements. This is the time which believers will be sparred from; raptured after persecution, before wrath.

 

[Donny_B]

...Revelation 13 definately dipicts Christians going through the persecution of the beast.

The Hour of Trial comes upon the whole earth, by definition in the verse. The persecution of Satan only comes upon Christians; Satan does not persecute those who take the mark of the beast. The hour of trial, then, since it encompasses the entire earth, must be the wrath of God; 7 trumpet judgements and 7 vial judgements. This is the time which believers will be sparred from; raptured after persecution, before wrath.

Revelation 13:7 says the beast will be given power to make war with the saints and overcome them and it will be given power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Some possible pre-trib explanations:
1. Some see this as having already been fulfilled in history.
2. This could be the lukewarm Laodicea Christians who were spewed out, as opposed to the Philadelphia Christians.
3. This could be the martyred tribulation saints who will be converted during the tribulation.

 

[devoted daughter]

You defeat your own argument here my friend. According to you, every time someone joins the "ekklesia", they should be "raptured". How many do you know of so far?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

LOL!!! Great point! Still haven't seen any!