Revelation 21:1

[silent water]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.

Why no more sea?

Do you take this literally or metaphorically? Explain.

Also interesting, In Genesis, during creation, even after the earth was described as without form and void, God still moved "upon the face of the waters"

Is there some type of link here? God moves over the face of the waters in the beginning, and the sea is abolished in the end. . .well, is there any meaning in this? This puzzles me. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Bon]

That's interesting.

Do you think that perhaps it has anything to do with the fact that Yahshua will be our water of life just like there will be no need for the sun or moon to shine, for the Glory of God lights it (the city), and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Shalom from Bon

 

[thaiv]

The sea is a result of the waters of judgment, which God used to judge the preadamic world. The work of God's re-creation was to recover the land by restricting the result of the waters of judgment (Gen. 1:9-10; Jer. 5:22). The living creatures of the preadamic world, after being judged by the waters, became the sea's inhabitants, the demons. After they have been dealt with by Christ and His believers (Matt. 8:29-32; Luke 10:17; Acts 16:16-18; 19:12) and the seas has given them up to the judgment of the great white throne (20:13), the sea will not be needed. Since the work of God's recreation, God's intention has been to abolish the sea by dealing with Satan and his demons. Hence, "the sea is no more" indicates that Satan and his evil followers will all be dealt with and will not be found in teh new heaven and new earth.

(note 3 from Rev. 21:1, RcV).

 

[Bon]

I just found this scripture passage:
Micah 7:19 "He will turn again, he will have compassion on us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea."

Perhaps there will be no more sea because the sins of every saved person have been cast into it. When Yahweh's new heaven and new earth appear, even the very sea which hides our sins will disappear! No evil force will ever again be able to dredge up our wicked past, and remind us of our evil deeds.

Shalom from Bon

 

[silent water]

I am reading these responses and. . .wow. Just wow. I never expected this type of response. I guess I never expected that there actually would be a scriptual link, I didn't expect any more than mere speculation. Gods Word truly is a remarkable book.

In my life, I have read a lot of fiction books several times, but there is nothing new about them, reading a novel a second time is just the same old story.

But after reading the Bible for years, the new things I find and new connections I make are endless. If anything, the more I read it, the MORE it has to SAY. Incredible!

 

[Bon]

I am reading these responses and. . .wow. Just wow. I never expected this type of response. I guess I never expected that there actually would be a scriptual link, I didn't expect any more than mere speculation. Gods Word truly is a remarkable book.

In my life, I have read a lot of fiction books several times, but there is nothing new about them, reading a novel a second time is just the same old story.

But after reading the Bible for years, the new things I find and new connections I make are endless. If anything, the more I read it, the MORE it has to SAY. Incredible!

Absolutely right silent water, we gain deeper understanding of Yahweh's word as we grow in our spiritual maturity with the help of the Holy Spirit, by the will of Yahweh.

His truth's are revealed to us as we become ready to understand them.....It's wonderful isn't it.

I can read a particular passage many times in my life and then suddenly, upon reading these same scripture, my eyes are opened and Yahweh reveals the truth and meaning of it.

It's mind blowing.
Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready, for you are still of the flesh.

You see, as we grow in the spirit, we slowly put off our fleshy nature and replace it with a spritual nature, looking above for our guidance and not to the world.

May you grow richly in the wisdom and knowledge of the spirit all the while with continuing awe, humility and enthusiasm.

Shalom from Bon

 

[thaiv]

Praise the Living Lord! His Word is always fresh!

 

[unbound]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.

Why no more sea?

Do you take this literally or metaphorically? Explain.

Also interesting, In Genesis, during creation, even after the earth was described as without form and void, God still moved "upon the face of the waters"

Is there some type of link here? God moves over the face of the waters in the beginning, and the sea is abolished in the end. . .well, is there any meaning in this? This puzzles me. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Yep, Ive thought the same thing. There definately is a link.

Why no more "sea"? Well, there is a possiblity that the "sea" being referred to is this one:

Revelation 4:6
And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

What is in the "sea"? The elements. Creation.

It is this "sea" that turns into the "lake of fire" . And where are the unrighteous cast into in Revelation? The lake of fire. Here is a cool verse that ties it together:

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Need more proof?

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

We see the "sea of glass is in front of the throne, right? Wouldnt that be the proper place for a "footstool"?

Heres another parallel

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Revelation 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Also read Ezekiel 1, it describes the same "terrible crystal" or "firmament" over the heads of the 4 beasts.

Here is the "sea" or "firmament" in Genesis:

Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here, God created the stars and such:

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


And, you mentioned the connection with "waters" or "clouds" or "the deep". I will give relative verses to these next time.

 

[2Timothy2]

I guess I never expected that there actually would be a scriptual link, I didn't expect any more than mere speculation.

Well, I don't think there is a Scriptural link. Pretty much everything said here is simply speculation. And IMO, some of these are really reaching. But, this is something we certainly should not fight over. That said, let me add my speculation.

Look at Rev 21:16-17 and consider the size of the New Jerusalem. Now, if this is an actual city and not a metaphor for something, it is HUGE. Also, consider that when the human authors of the books of the Bible talked about a sea, they usually had in mind the Med. Perhaps, John was saying that there would no longer be the Mediterranean Sea, and thus, the New Jerusalem would sit on dry land. Just a thought, nothing dogmatic.

 

[Ray1956]

Look at the sentence carefully. The comment about the sea is in the context of the first heaven and first earth having passed away. It could also be translated as: For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and the sea also passed away. But this doesn't mean there wont be a new sea in the new earth. At least I hope there is. I love to body surf.

 

[Truth and Reconciliation]

Keep in mind that the Jewish view of the universe is:

1. God is in Heaven above all things.
2. Separating Heaven and the universe are "waters" above the "firmament" with floodgates.
3. Below just that are the sun, moon, and stars.
4. Below that is the sky, followed by the earth.
5. Below earth is Sheol or Abbadon, supported by the "columns of the earth" in the unending abyss.

I think Revelation means that there will be no more "sea" as there will be nothing separating Heaven and earth. All will be one, for Christ shall unify the world and all believers under the New Jerusalem.

 

[2Timothy2]

Keep in mind that the Jewish view of the universe is:

1. God is in Heaven above all things.
2. Separating Heaven and the universe are "waters" above the "firmament" with floodgates.
3. Below just that are the sun, moon, and stars.
4. Below that is the sky, followed by the earth.
5. Below earth is Sheol or Abbadon, supported by the "columns of the earth" in the unending abyss.

I think Revelation means that there will be no more "sea" as there will be nothing separating Heaven and earth. All will be one, for Christ shall unify the world and all believers under the New Jerusalem.

I'm not sure of that generalization, do you have documentaion? But, regardless, Revelation was primarily a letter, or letters, sent to several Gentile churches, not specifically a Jewish community. So, keeping it in context, what you say doesn't really apply here. IMO

 

[Truth and Reconciliation]

Remember, some Hebrew belief are not found in the Bible, since the early Jewish nation adopted a lot of stuff from their pagan neighbors. The picture I attached is a version of the picture found in a footnote in the Book of Genesis in my Bible, BTW. John was very versed in Hebrew culture and theology, and he's probably writing this from his viewpoint.

Also keep in mind that Revelation isn't geared towards Gentiles only. Note how it says in Acts that Christians composed of Jews and Greeks back then.

 

[2Timothy2]

Remember, some Hebrew belief are not found in the Bible, since the early Jewish nation adopted a lot of stuff from their pagan neighbors. The picture I attached is a version of the picture found in a footnote in the Book of Genesis in my Bible, BTW. John was very versed in Hebrew culture and theology, and he's probably writing this from his viewpoint.

Also keep in mind that Revelation isn't geared towards Gentiles only. Note how it says in Acts that Christians composed of Jews and Greeks back then.

I agree with what you just posted, except that the churches for which this book/letter was first intended were decidedly gentile in make-up. Jewish fables would not have been understood very well by them. Granted there were definately Jewish believers in each of these churches, and Revelation alludes to and uses many OT references. But I do not believe that is enough to support your previous post. But, this certainly isn't an essential issue. IOW nothing to quarrel over. However, we need to be cautious in how we exegete and interpret Scripture, in general. I would have to say that your theory is assuming too much, and the text and background of the text doesn't support your position. What I posted in response to the OP is nothing more than my speculation, and I tried to make clear it was only that. I am in no way dogmatic about any of this, except for using proper methods of exegeting and interpretting Scripture. Hopefully you will take this in the spirit it is intended.

That said, I do need to agree with something you said in your earlier post:

All will be one, for Christ shall unify the world and all believers under the New Jerusalem.

 

[unbound]

We should also keep on mind that John in Rev. is taken up to the throne in a vision, much as Ezekiel saw the throne in a vision. The descriptions are the same. John is relating to us what he saw there, and I believe what he saw is depicting the Alpha to Omega, the beginning of creation to the destruction of it. I believe that is what is going on before the throne.

 

[Ray1956]

Remember, some Hebrew belief are not found in the Bible, since the early Jewish nation adopted a lot of stuff from their pagan neighbors. The picture I attached is a version of the picture found in a footnote in the Book of Genesis in my Bible, BTW. John was very versed in Hebrew culture and theology, and he's probably writing this from his viewpoint.

1. God is in Heaven above all things.
2. Separating Heaven and the universe are "waters" above the "firmament" with floodgates.
3. Below just that are the sun, moon, and stars.
4. Below that is the sky, followed by the earth.
5. Below earth is Sheol or Abbadon, supported by the "columns of the earth" in the unending abyss.

I think Revelation means that there will be no more "sea" as there will be nothing separating Heaven and earth. All will be one, for Christ shall unify the world and all believers under the New Jerusalem.

On the surface this sounds real good, but my problem with this is it says God is requiring His people to understand this prophecy in the light of pagan philosophy. Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[mark kennedy]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.

Why no more sea?

Do you take this literally or metaphorically? Explain.

Also interesting, In Genesis, during creation, even after the earth was described as without form and void, God still moved "upon the face of the waters"

Is there some type of link here? God moves over the face of the waters in the beginning, and the sea is abolished in the end. . .well, is there any meaning in this? This puzzles me. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks.

The sea and all of the natural water resources had been turned to blood during the Tribulation particularly during the pouring out of the second and third vials of wrath (Rev. 16:3-6). As others have pointed out in the thread the water that people drink will come form the throne of God. There is ample reason the believe that Jesus promise to the Samaritian woman in John 4:13-14 was quite literal and Rev. 21:1 is a literal fullfillment of it. (see Zech 14:8; Ezek 47:9; Ezek 36:25-27). You probably won't have to drink water all the time, you only have to drink this water once and you'll never be thirsty again.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Kaitsu]

I have often felt that references to "sea" represent conflict and disorder, neither of which will exist in the new world, for example:

"Pick me up and throw me into the sea," he replied, "and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this greatstorm has come upon you." Jonah 1:12

He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. “Where is your faith?” he asked his disciples. In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.” Luke 8:25

I cannot think of any reason why there should not be literal sea in a new world, afterall, the sea and its various lifeforms provide some of the most beautiful examples of God's work on this planet. And water itself is of such biblical importance.

Kaitsu

 

[mark kennedy]

I have often felt that references to "sea" represent conflict and disorder, neither of which will exist in the new world, for example:

"Pick me up and throw me into the sea," he replied, "and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this greatstorm has come upon you." Jonah 1:12

He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. “Where is your faith?” he asked his disciples. In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.” Luke 8:25

In Pink Floyd's the Wall there is a part that goes 'shall we set out upon this sea of faces, searching for more and more applause'. When I heard that for the first time it reminded me of this verse:

"The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues." (Rev. 17:15). I can see how someone reading Revelation would want to take it figurativly since so much of it is so graphiclly figurative. I don't think you have something like that in 21:1 for the simple reason that the Bible usually tells you in the immediate context whether or not it is figurative.

I cannot think of any reason why there should not be literal sea in a new world, afterall, the sea and its various lifeforms provide some of the most beautiful examples of God's work on this planet. And water itself is of such biblical importance.

Kaitsu

That is a lovely sentiment but the things that are temporal are destroyed by fire at the final judgment and only the thing that are eternal will remain. I don't know what the author of life has in store for us after the ressurection but I can tell you that it will be unlike anything we have seen or imagined. To be honest I don't think there will be insects or animals either, we are the only living creature in or world with eternal souls. That's a little hard to wrap you mind around but God's finest work is not in the sea, its in you through Christ.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Kaitsu]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the comments

I don't think you have something like that in 21:1 for the simple reason that the Bible usually tells you in the immediate context whether or not it is figurative.

Good point. However, it then raises a question in mind that if it simply means there will be no sea, why bother mentioning the sea at all? why not list all the other things that won't be there? Surely, there is a purpose behind everything that is mentioned in this way in the bible, so what makes this worthy of being singled out for mentioning if it is simply the oceans?

To be honest I don't think there will be insects or animals either, we are the only living creature in or world with eternal souls.

Hmmm, maybe, but then the bible does talk of God reconciling his whole creation to himself, and the gospel being proclaimed to "every creature under heaven" - but I guess that is another topic!

That's a little hard to wrap you mind around but God's finest work is not in the sea, its in you through Christ.

Well, I didn't actually say that the sea was "God finest work", only that "its various lifeforms provide some of the most beautiful examples of God's work on this planet". I must confess though that I do not consider myself a very good example of God's finest work - but I guess through Christ anything is possible in theory

Thanks again!

Kaitsu