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Revelation 18 question

JustAsIam77

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Is it conceivable that the United States is the great city of Babylon?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2018&version=9

The USA was formed as a Christian nation. In modern times our country has taken prayer out of schools and gone against biblical teaching. In favor of abortion, homosexual relationships, etc. Basically turned her back on Gods teachings via scripture. Abominations of every kind run rampant through our society. All in the cause for "political correctness" and not offending anyones "right" to do whatever they please as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Even alot of our Christian churches preach "tolerance" to anti biblical conduct.

Is it possible the wrath of God is beginning to be poured out on our country?. i.e. the economy in trouble, etc.

What do you guys think. Could we be the Babylon that will be made desolate as referred to in Revelation?
 

MrJim

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Is it conceivable that the United States is the great city of Babylon?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2018&version=9

The USA was formed as a Christian nation. In modern times our country has taken prayer out of schools and gone against biblical teaching. In favor of abortion, homosexual relationships, etc. Basically turned her back on Gods teachings via scripture. Abominations of every kind run rampant through our society. All in the cause for "political correctness" and not offending anyones "right" to do whatever they please as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Even alot of our Christian churches preach "tolerance" to anti biblical conduct.

Is it possible the wrath of God is beginning to be poured out on our country?. i.e. the economy in trouble, etc.

What do you guys think. Could we be the Babylon that will be made desolate as referred to in Revelation?

No
American wasn't formed as a Christian nation~ain't any worse than any others out there..
 
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Secundulus

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Is it conceivable that the United States is the great city of Babylon?


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation 18&version=9

The USA was formed as a Christian nation. In modern times our country has taken prayer out of schools and gone against biblical teaching. In favor of abortion, homosexual relationships, etc. Basically turned her back on Gods teachings via scripture. Abominations of every kind run rampant through our society. All in the cause for "political correctness" and not offending anyones "right" to do whatever they please as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Even alot of our Christian churches preach "tolerance" to anti biblical conduct.

Is it possible the wrath of God is beginning to be poured out on our country?. i.e. the economy in trouble, etc.

What do you guys think. Could we be the Babylon that will be made desolate as referred to in Revelation?
I think that Babylon refers to the false religious system. That is those who worship something other than the one God. I think the USA certainly qualifies as we seem to worship money and personal autonomy over all else. But I do not think it refers specifically to the USA. As bad as we are, Europe seems to be far worse these days. I don't think there is a country in the entire world today, with the possible exception of the Vatcan City, that does not qualify to be Babylon.

But like I have said before, If God does not do something soon, then he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah.
 
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Wade Smith

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I have some circumstancial evidence that "mystery Babylon" involves the city of Jerusalem.

However, I will say that many things in the Bible, including some prohecies, have at least a double meaning.

"Mystery, Babylon" probably refers to both a city AND a "World System".

by "world system" I do not necessarily mean a "one world government".

What I mean is a system of false religions. Ultimately, all false religions are but a part of a greater whole, which is Satan's rebellion against God.

The Muslim and the Buddhist and the voodoo and the hindu and the taoist and the wiccan, etc, along with the apostate church, and every other false religion; they all serve satan. They may not realize that, but it is still true nonetheless.

However, all of that being said, "Babylon" is a place too.



Here it is:

Luke 13:33Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

In other words, Jesus is refering to the fact that almost all the Old Testament prophets who were ever murdered were murdered in Jerusalem.



34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Ok, now watch this language.

Rev. 18:20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Next proof. Back up to verse 16:

16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

Now lets look at God's description of Jerusalem and Israel in Ezekiel chapter 16, and see the similarities in the language.

10I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

11I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. 14And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.



it is eerily similar description of Israel and "Mystery Babylon".


Though the United States' day of judgement is coming, I do not believe the U.S. is "mystery Babylon".



If we back up to revelation 17, we see some things.

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

In scripture, particularly in the prohetic books, a "harlot" represents a nation that is backslidden and has left God.

"The mother of Harlots" would then be a nation that is particularly guilty of having done this. Among all nations, Israel would be most guilty of this. "To whom much has been given much is required."

18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


At the time this was written, Rome "reigned" over the earth in the natural sense, but Rome never "reigneth", certainly not in a religious sense, except as it regards catholicism.

But in terms of religions, Israel has always been the melting pot of every religion, both true and false. Even to this day, they have all sorts of idols from nearly every nation and religion built right into the knesset.


Among all harlots, Israel "reigneth" as the worst. The "contrary harlot" which had the greatest revelations of God given to her, and yet turned away as bad or worse than any other.


Next proof, a prophetic cross reference.


Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This describes a terrible earthquake strong enough to rip a mountain in half, this would be at least a 10.0, maybe 10.5 or higher on the richter scale. It would dwarf the sumatra quake that made the tsunami in 2004.

This is where Jesus gave some of his sermons, and sits right next to Jerusalem proper.


Now see the same earthquake described in apocalyptic language in Revelation.

16:17And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Clearly, this earthquake WOULD cleave the mount of Olives, Just as prophesied in Zechariah. It would be difficult to imagine how anyone could survive such a quake in any of the coastal regions or mountain regions of the world which might be affected by it.

But that is the prophetic "cross reference" or "tie in". This quake in Revelation, when it happens, is more than big enough to fulfill Zechariah's prophecy.

=====


I pray for the salvation of Jews everywhere, and the peace of Jerusalem.


However, that doesn't change the facts:

The "mystery Babylon" or "Babylon the Great" spoken of in Revelation is Israel, specificly the city of Jerusalem.
 
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JustAsIam77

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I think that Babylon refers to the false religious system. That is those who worship something other than the one God. I think the USA certainly qualifies as we seem to worship money and personal autonomy over all else. But I do not think it refers specifically to the USA. As bad as we are, Europe seems to be far worse these days. I don't think there is a country in the entire world today, with the possible exception of the Vatcan City, that does not qualify to be Babylon.

But like I have said before, If God does not do something soon, then he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah.

I think the world in general is possibly a candidate for the mysterious Babylon in Revelation. Jerusalem perhaps also. It's a subject untold numbers of scholarly theologians have disagreed on. I believe there's another candidate that may qualify but I'll not go there in the cause to keep harmony in this forum.
 
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Wade Smith

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But like I have said before, If God does not do something soon, then he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah.

I agree, Though I can't tell God what to do.

His mercies are everlasting.

Yet, "The servant who knew better and did evil will be beaten with many stripes."

Among all generations, this generation has had more access to the Word of God than any other,and yet paradoxically, this generation is one of the most ungodly ever.

If God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah when there was no written word for them to study, how much more guilty are we today?

If God said that Sodom and Gomorah would rise in judgement against capernaum, how much more would they rise in judgement against us today?


Light rejected is light withdrawn.

There are a few places in scripture where we see God withdrew himself from the earth or part of the earth temporarily.

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I assume some seperation between the two phrases. We see the "presence" of God did not immediate move upon the earth. There was a time of seperaton.

Exodus 10:21And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

22And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days: 23They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Luke 23:44
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.


Revelation 16:10
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,


And lastly, a terrible sentence of darkness upon the Church, of all people. Light rejected is light withdrawn.

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


The Glory of the Lord has departed from so many churches and even entire nations, and they go about their business not even noticing, nor caring when the few people speak up about it.
 
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CADude12

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After reading Rev. 18, I think that the Babylon mentioned is first and foremost, Rome of the fist century AD. It's what the readers of John's Revelation would have thought of when they heard of "Babylon the Great".

Then, there is the consideration of what it might mean for us, here in the 21st century. I'd rather think that Babylon is a paradigm for false religious and secular forces which oppose God and his Kingdom.

As far as the US being Babylon... to the extent that we "fit the bill", then I'd say, yes. If our wealth has taken us away from God, then his judgement can be pronounced.

But I don't believe that the US was founded as a "Christian nation". Many of the founders were Deists and practical agnostics. Lip service to God, I believe, was very common at the end of the 18th century.

There were so many revivals necessary in the 17th - 20th century. Jonatham Edwards, Charles Finney, DL Moody, Billy Graham, just to name a few of the great leaders of revival... always trying to lead people to a deeper conversion of faith...
 
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Nadiine

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But like I have said before, If God does not do something soon, then he will have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah.
Hey Sec... I'd agree with that for sure, but then other European countries are ALOT worse than the USA as far as morality goes.

You have euthanasia of the elderly in the Netherlands, Amsterdam has legalized street drugs & prostitution....
you have child sex slavery in some Asian countries like Thailand -- in China you have slaughter of Christians & forced infanticide...

so as bad as we are, others are equal or worse. If a gang of men was pounding on a man's door to force him to give up his guest for sex, it might of been worse than the USA is right now.
Apathy was a big part of S&G's sin - they cared about no one else around them.

Not to derail, sorry :angel:
 
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CADude12

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Hey Sec... I'd agree with that for sure, but then other European countries are ALOT worse than the USA as far as morality goes.

You have euthanasia of the elderly in the Netherlands, Amsterdam has legalized street drugs & prostitution....
you have child sex slavery in some Asian countries like Thailand -- in China you have slaughter of Christians & forced infanticide...

so as bad as we are, others are equal or worse. If a gang of men was pounding on a man's door to force him to give up his guest for sex, it might of been worse than the USA is right now.
Apathy was a big part of S&G's sin - they cared about no one else around them.

Not to derail, sorry :angel:

Yes, I agree.:thumbsup:
 
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Simon_Templar

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is it conceivable... yes I suppose, people could conceive of it (and have)

is it likely, no.

The babylon spoken of in Rev 17 and 18 probably represents a couple different things. First and formost it is probably speaking of the kingdom of this world. The false body of religion that has dominated the world since Cain founded the first city, taking on different forms, but always comming back to the same sins.
Babylon does also appear to describe a city, but that city is almost certainly either Rome, or Jerusalem.

They descriptors of the city are that it sits on seven hills, it rules over the kings of the earth (relative to John's time), and it is full of the blood of martyrs. Those descriptions could fit either Rome or Jerusalem.
 
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