Revelation 13:8

[Deaver]

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.(Revelation 13:8 )
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What is the "the book of life?" Is this a book that Jesus carries, as it sounds like when we read it in the KJV, or is it something else?

Let’s look at the key words, first in the KJV

“…whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

And then from the Emphatic Diaglott Interlinear, a word for word English translation of the original Greek:

“…Whose name has not been written in the SCROLL of the LIFE of THAT LAMB that was KILLED.

So now we see from this scripture that our names must be written in "THE LIFE OF THE LAMB" or our lives are not worth anything. Now see how this compares this to what Paul tells us in Romans.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2 KJV)
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[DamianWarS]

Revelation 13:8 (Greek)
καὶ προσκυνήσουσιν αὐτὸν πάντες οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς οὗ οὐ γέγραπται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ τῆς ζωῆς τοῦ ἀρνίου τοῦ ἐσφαγμένου ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου

Revelation 13:8 (NASB)
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

I will look at the portion highlighted in colour

1. ἐν 2. τῷ 3. βιβλίῳ
1. preposition [in] 2. definite article [the] 3. noun [book]

4. τῆς 5. ζωῆς
4. definite article [of-the] 5. noun [of-life]

6. τοῦ 7. ἀρνίου
6. definite article [of-the] 7. noun [of-lambkin]​

The reason for the different versions of the definite article translated as "the" or "of-the" is because the definite article is an adjective, and its case, gender and number always match the word it modifies. Even though each example is the same word in root the English definite article may not fully represent what it is talking about.

τῷ βιβλίῳ
the and book are both dative, neuter, singular

τῆς ζωῆς
the and life are both genitive, feminine, singular

τοῦ ἀρνίου
the and lambkin are both genitive, neuter, singular​

I think singular number everyone understands. In the case of gender feminine should be pretty clear. If not clear neuter gender is neither male nor female. Probably the biggest problems that people have is the "case" which the examples used are "dative" and "genitive".

Dative Case:
in general the dative marks the indirect object of a verb. There is no problems translating this as "the book" and the english communicates the indirect object simply from the position of the words

Genitive Case:
this marks possession and in English we would write "of" or an apostrophe "s" to indicate possession. So there is a problem translating this as "the life" or "the lambkin" as the English does not indicate the possession. Sometimes if you look at an interlinear bible you might see the noun translated as "of life" or your might see the article translated as "of the". In truth both words are marked with possession with the article agreeing with the noun. The correct translation in both of these cases are "of the life" and "of the lambkin"​

The final translation of the area in questions is:

... in the book of the life of the lambkin ...

our names must not be written simply "in the life of the lambkin" as the text does not say this and the possesion is directly marked saying "of the life of the lambkin". What is also directly marked in the indirect object which is "the book". Your translation goes against the grammar directly presented in the text. Our names need to be written "from the foundation of the world" (object) "in the book" (indirect object) which is "of the life" (showing possession of the life) "of the lambkin" (showing possession of the lambkin). The position of the words grammatically represented in the indirect object and the possession are clear in the Greek and should be put no other way when translating.

 

[OzSpen]

Damian,

The reason for the different versions of the definite article translated as "the" or "of-the" is because the definite article is an adjective, and its case, gender and number always match the word it modifies. Even though each example is the same word in root the English definite article may not fully represent what it is talking about.

Whoever told you that the definite article is an adjective in Greek? That is news to me. The definite article had its origin in the Greek demonstratives, ho, he and to.

I think singular number everyone understands. In the case of gender feminine should be pretty clear. If not clear neuter gender is neither male nor female. Probably the biggest problems that people have is the "case" which the examples used are "dative" and "genitive".

What you fail to point out is that with a language of declension and conjugation, like Greek, feminine gender is not the equivalent to English female gender. Why? Because every noun in Greek is either masculine, feminine or neuter gender. EVERY noun!

As John Wenham has stated in his introductory text, The Elements of New Testament Greek (1965. London: Cambridge University Press, p. 8),

In English we distinguish four genders: masculine(to denote males), feminine (to denote females), neuter (to denote things, common (for words which can denote either males or females, e.g. 'child').... In Greek, gender has to do with the form of the words and has little to do with sex. There are masculine, feminine and neuter forms, but 'bread' is masculine, 'head' is feminine, and 'child' is neuter.

These differentiations must be pointed out so that English readers do not automatically equate Greek masculine = male; Greek feminine = female; Greek neuter = things.

In Greek, gender applies to other than nouns, including the definite article, adjectives, substantives and participles.

Oz

 

[Fireinfolding]

This is pretty kool, he confesses someone twofold, before His Father and before His angels

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Same here...

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Paul knew whose names were in the book of life

Phil 4:1 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel,with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Ashamed of me and my words = gospel

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Likewise not ashamed of the same

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

To him who overcometh...

1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Then here he says...

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


Which sounds much like here (but written in the earth)

Jerm 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I havent rightly divided this yet, Im rolling it around, seeing a few things which appear to mesh, then not sure, and then I get brain freeze, need to wait on it and start to look at it again.

Would the books (plural being open) be the law and the prophets, or something other given we are living epistles, and the other book opened (where one is read and known) being found in Him, perhaps?

The wording in a few places it very similiar

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Just similiarities here....

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Duet 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but thenthe anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (the books, plural, books opened)


Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

I have this written up alot of ways, but you can at least catch some similiarities (for oneself)... "found in him" (righteousness of God) without the law, not in the law having a righteouesness of our own, but by faith in Christ

A little sloppy sorry

 

[DamianWarS]

Damian,
Whoever told you that the definite article is an adjective in Greek? That is news to me. The definite article had its origin in the Greek demonstratives

demonstratives and articles are forums of adjectives in that their purpose is to modify a noun.

"the car", "that car"

The noun "car" standing alone is different than "the car" or "that car". "The" and "that" point to the noun isolating it thus modifying it thereby making it an adjective.

Regardless what words I used or the terms we can agree on the point still remains the same the article agrees with the noun. I clearly showed that in my examples. The point was to show that although it appeared as a different word the words were all the same.

What you fail to point out is that with a language of declension and conjugation, like Greek, feminine gender is not the equivalent to English female gender. Why? Because every noun in Greek is either masculine, feminine or neuter gender. EVERY noun!

There is no translation problems with the fact that in greek these words may be feminine, masculine or neuter as their gender really has nothing to do with the meaning of the text and can be converted to a language that does not have gender identified in their words like English. The biggest translation "problem" that needs to be identified is the possession which would add the word "of" in English. For example one could ask "why is the word 'of' in English translations when it is not in the greek" well my point was to show it is in the greek. the words were not good enough as just a "definite article and noun" and possession needed to be included which is the reason why the english "of" is added. I only pointed out how to correctly translate the text into English and why however my intention was not an exhaustive greek lesson. I didn't feel it necessary to go into detail about the gender aspects of the words however I did show what gender they had and that they needed to agree with case, gender and number.

 

[C R F]

The Lambs book of life is the spiritual understanding of the new testament. All teachings are given in grave dark sentences but threw the spirit they are alive.

 

[Deaver]

Thanks to all of you for your input. Very interesting responses. I, too, am grappling to rightly divide God's word to us.