Revelation 12:1

[ahiggs]

the woman in Revelation 12:1 is it Eve, the chruch, or Isreal. i have my thoughts, what are yours?

Revelation 12
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

 

[cyberlizard]

i would tend to fall on the jacob/israel side of the coin, as the typology works. Jacob had twelve sons, the narrative account in Genesis speaks of both sun and moon.

I think the problem with revelation is everyone thinks its to do with the future when much of it is to do with the early church, showing incidents from Israel's past, and how they reflected the church and times of the then present situation they were encountering.

I think the child it mentions in the following verse is Messiah.

I cannot prove any of this of course, and generally don't read revelation often enough as my grasp on the first 2/3 of my bible is a little shaky at best and the typology all fits with masses and multiple allusions to tanakah passages.


Steve

p.s. sorry the answers a bit rubbish - best i can do.

 

[ahiggs]

i would tend to fall on the jacob/israel side of the coin, as the typology works. Jacob had twelve sons, the narrative account in Genesis speaks of both sun and moon.

i think i tend to agree i assume that you are taking about the dream that Joseph had and told his father about?

I think the problem with revelation is everyone thinks its to do with the future when much of it is to do with the early church, showing incidents from Israel's past, and how they reflected the church and times of the then present situation they were encountering.

I think the child it mentions in the following verse is Messiah.

I cannot prove any of this of course, and generally don't read revelation often enough as my grasp on the first 2/3 of my bible is a little shaky at best and the typology all fits with masses and multiple allusions to tanakah passages.

honestly i don't read it much either, i have read it but never studdied it deeply. the only reason i brought it up is it came up in a debate that i am in, and thought it was something i would like to hear other opinions about.


Steve

p.s. sorry the answers a bit rubbish - best i can do.

not at all i appriciate your input

 

[Bobinator]

The Book of Revelations is all about the end times. The wonder in heaven is God's perfect church that will be formed during these last days. Of course, the church in its current condition is far from perfect, but it exists in the spirit and will become more evident as the end draws near.

The 12 stars above her head represent the 12 spiritual tribes of Israel. The moon under her feet is the demonic kingdom, which God's people will overcome in the last days. We find in Revelations 7, God seals 12,000 people from each of the tribes of Israel. Every born again believer belongs to one of these spiritual tribes. We are spiritual Jews, wherein we may cry abba father. Note- not all will be sealed, but those who are will be protected (Ezekiel 8 and 9)

Romans 8:15- "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

The woman is part of God's end time church that will survive during these last days. Out of her will be an elite group referred as the man-child who will attain God's highest calling and become the manifest sons of God, spoken of in Joel Chapter 2.

During tribulations, the Christians that comprise of the "woman" will be protected by God while other Christians that didn't make it into this group or the man-child will be martyred as spoken of in Rev. 12:17.

We know that Christ is coming back for his bride. The woman is the glorious bride of Christ that exists as a corporate body of beleivers that develop into full spiritual maturity and relationship with God.

 

[Christopher LaRock]

This portion of Revelation seems to retell how Jesus came into the world.

1 A woman favored by God is with child

2 satan trys to kill the child

3 the woman and her child flee to hide from those who seek the child's life

4 The child is said to be the one who would rule the world forever without end

 

[Bobinator]

This portion of Revelation seems to retell how Jesus came into the world.

1 A woman favored by God is with child

2 satan trys to kill the child

3 the woman and her child flee to hide from those who seek the child's life

4 The child is said to be the one who would rule the world forever without end

Christopher-

The very meaning of the word "revelations" is in reference to the future. The book of Revelations was believed to have been written sometime around 67 A.D., when the apostle John was around 90 years old- long after Jesus was crucified.

Jesus was not caught up to heaven when he was born. He fled from Bethlehem and eventually resided in Galilee where he learned to be a carpenter. If the "woman" in Revelations 12 is Mary, then who is the "remnant of her seed" that Satan wars against in his wrath. And, how can they have the testimony of Jesus Christ if he was still a babe and wasn't crucified until 33 years later?

Revelations 12 cannot be about the birth of Jesus.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christopher-

The very meaning of the word "revelations" is in reference to the future. The book of Revelations was believed to have been written sometime around 67 A.D., when the apostle John was around 90 years old- long after Jesus was crucified.

Jesus was not caught up to heaven when he was born. He fled from Bethlehem and eventually resided in Galilee where he learned to be a carpenter. If the "woman" in Revelations 12 is Mary, then who is the "remnant of her seed" that Satan wars against in his wrath. And, how can they have the testimony of Jesus Christ if he was still a babe and wasn't crucified until 33 years later?

Revelations 12 cannot be about the birth of Jesus.

Could it symbolize both the Birth and Ascension of Jesus?
The same word used for "shepherding" in Reve 12:5 is used as the One that would be Shepherding YHWH's people "israel" in Matt 2. Thoughts?

Revelation 12:1 And Sign great was seen in the heaven a woman having been about cast the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her and upon the hear of her a crown of-stars twelve
5 And she brought forth a son, male, who is being about to be Shepherding/poimainein <4165> (5721) all the Nations in club iron. And is snatched-away the offspring of her toward the God and toward the throne of Him.

Matt 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, land of Judah, not being inferior-most are in the ones-leading of Judea. For out of thee shall be going-forth one-leading, who-any shall be Shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) the People of Me, the Israel.

 

[Bobinator]

Another thing to consider is that Israel was never a wonder in Heaven. Israel was corrupt. She killed the prophets and crucified our Lord. This was one of the reasons the Lord opened the new covenant to the gentiles, because the Lord's chosen people rejected the gospel. Before the birth of Jesus, there was silence in Israel for around 400 years. There was no prophet, no signs and wonders. Nothing. That is, until John the Baptist arrived. Therefore, Israel (the Jews) could not have been a wonder in heaven. Mary was not a wonder in Heaven either. Just a humble young lady that was pure in heart chosen to be a vessel. Satan never tried to kill her by sending a flood, and neither did the earth open up to save her, or was given wings to fly like an eagle. At any rate, it doesn't mention Joseph or the mule they were riding.

[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This is a period of 3 1/2 years. We know that tribulations will last 7 years. The church will be heavily persecuted. This is referred to as the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the Prophet that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24. The group which comprises the "woman" shall flee and be protected by God during the 2nd half of the tribulation period until Christ returns. The "remnant of her seed" is another group of Christians that will face persecution and death for the testimony of Jesus, and are spoken of in Revelations 6:11- "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

 

[TheCub]

"Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and [FONT=Arial, helvetica]the ark of his covenant was seen [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]And a great portent appeared in heaven, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica] she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]." (Cf. Rev. 11:19-12:6)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica], he persecuted the woman[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica] who brought forth the man child. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert, unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]And the serpent cast out of his mouth, after the woman, water, as it were a river: that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. And the earth helped the woman: and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth." [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]&#8230;.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]&#8230;[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](Cf. Rev. 12:13-16)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica](n.b. the Greek word eremos (which means 'wilderness' or 'desert') was used in both instances above, but the translator chose to use 'wilderness' in one place and 'desert' in another.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]Comment:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, helvetica]It is a fact that the authors of the books of the Bible did not break their writings into chapters. This is a convention added by the Church centuries ago to aid in reference. Hence, we can gain greater insight as to the meaning of the word 'woman' by taking this into consideration in reading the last verse of Revelation 11 together with Revelation 12.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]The Blessed Virgin Mary is the 'New Ark of the Covenant' as we shall discuss in greater detail below. While the Old Testament ark of the covenant carried the written word of God; for nine months, the Blessed Virgin carried the Incarnate Word [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](Joh 1:1-14).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]The Old Testament ark of the covenant remains on earth hidden [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](2 Ma 2:5).[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica] It can not possibly be in Heaven. Whereas, the New Ark of the Covenant was assumed body and soul into Heaven. Therefore, the Ark of the Covenant that St. John saw in Heaven [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]had to be[/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica] the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, helvetica]Furthermore, the Mother of God has appeared with a crown of stars, and clothed with the sun and with the moon at her feet (e.g. Our Lady of Guadalupe). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]We have additional assurance that the above passage refers to the Blessed Virgin in that it states "she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne". Psalm 2:9 confirms that the phrase, "rules with a rod of iron", refers to Jesus. Additional confirmation is provided in the verbiage, "but her child was caught up to God and to his throne". This can be no other than Jesus, the Son of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]Lastly, note that the woman wears a crown. Which type of women wear crowns? Queens and Queen Mothers. In the Davidic kingdoms of the Old Testament, the Queen Mother was the mother of the King. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]The principal role of the Queen Mother was to serve as advocate or intercessor on behalf of the people of Israel to her son the King. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](Refer to I Kings 2:19-20)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]The Tribulation is to last 'a week of years' [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica](Daniel 9:26-27). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, helvetica]The last half, or roughly 3 1/2 years, represents the duration of the Great Tribulation. 'Time, times and a half', and '1260 days' relate to such 3 1/2 years.[/FONT]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the 'New Ark of the Covenant' as we shall discuss in greater detail below. While the Old Testament ark of the covenant carried the written word of God; for nine months, the Blessed Virgin carried the Incarnate Word (Joh 1:1-14).

Greetings and interesting thread. I do not view the mary in that but you appear to be correct concerning a New Covenant and never really looked at it that way before.

That would then make that woman in Reve 17:14 a Woman of the Old Covenant and harmonize purrrfectly with Galatian 4! Thanks for that post!!!!

Galatian 4:25 The yet Hagar, Sinai Mount is in the Arabia, is together-elemental/su-stoicei <4960> (5719) yet to the now Jurusalem being in servitude with the offsprings of Her.

Revelation 12:1 And Sign, great was seen in the heaven a Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls, having drinkcup, golden, in the hand of her being replete/brimming of abominations and the uncleannesses of the prostitution of her

 

[SummaScriptura]

Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?"

For in the fortieth year of my life, I saw a vision on the Mount of Olives, on the east of Jerusalem, that the sun and the moon were standing still. And behold Isaac, the father of my father, said to us: Run and lay hold of them, each one according to his strength; and to him that seizeth them will the sun and moon belong. And we all of us ran together, and Levi laid hold of the sun, and Judah outstripped the others and seized the moon, and they were both of them lifted up with them. And when Levi became as a sun, lo, a certain young man gave to him twelve branches of palm; and Judah was bright as the moon, and under their feet were twelve rays. And the two, Levi and Judah, ran, and laid hold of them.

And lo, a bull upon the earth, with two great horns, and an eagle's wings upon his back; and we wished to seize him, but could not. But Joseph came, and seized him, and ascended up with him on high. And I saw, for I was there, and behold a holy writing appeared to us, saying: Assyrians, Medes, Persians, Chaldeans, Syrians, shall possess in captivity the twelve tribes of Israel.

In the passage from Genesis the Sun and Moon represent Jacob and his wife, the stars Joseph's brothers.

Another ancient Jewish work, "The Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs" is also quoted above. In it the typology is re-introduced with certain innovations. Here the Sun and Moon refer to positions of primacy among the 12 patriarchs. The postion of the Sun is taken by Levi who will become the father of the nation's priesthood; the position of the moon is taken by Judah who would become the father of the line of Jewish kings.

An unusual element is incorporated into the vision. Joseph is to grasp a bull with great horns and wings. The Bull signifies Egypt. That the bull had great horns signifies Egypt's role of power in the world of that time. That the bull had wings signifies the bull's role in the deliverance of Israel; the bull would lift up Joseph signifying the position of Joseph would assume as Israel's deliverer from the coming famine.

It is interesting to note, the woman in Revelation 12 is delivered from Satan by being born on eagle's wings as was the case in the passage from Naptali 5 above. This typology was also used for Israel's deliverance from Egypt at the Exodus; Exodus 19:4, You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles&#8217; wings and brought you to myself.

So, the passage in Revelation 12 seems to be relying upon well-used types from Jewish and biblical literature. I take the woman clothed with sun, moon and stars as a picture of Israel from whom Messiah was given to the nations. I take the woman's fleeing to the wilderness to parallel passages in the gospels where Jesus warns people living in Jerusalem and Judea to flee to the mountains when the Abomination that causes desolation is revealed in the end times.

Another passage from the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs may be of interest in this context; "Therefore is the enemy eager to destroy all that call upon the Lord. For he knoweth that on the day on which Israel shall repent, the kingdom of the enemy shall be brought to an end." ~ Dan 6:3-4