Restoring the Apostle's Fundamental, BHS

[rocknanchor]

Ever run a search on the Baptism with the Holy Spirit (BHS) in past posts? I suspect most will reflexively note, not such mystery at all, is this continuing denominational schism over BHS. The denominational wall they have erected from the BHS is a spot on the Christian ministry by every loyal Christian sect handling it. To date: the Bond of Unity from each of these prefers its own on this matter at the expense of the Bond of Unity of the Spirit.

Behold, now is “A FAVORABLE TIME,” behold, now is “A DAY OF SALVATION”— giving no reason for taking offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited, , Our mouth has spoken freely to you, you [Christians], our heart is opened wide. You are not restrained by us, but you are restrained in your own affections. Now in the same way in exchange—I am speaking as to children—open wide your hearts to us, you as well.
(2Cor 6:2,3,11-13, NASB)​

​

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,
in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that all of you agree with one another
in what you say and that there be no
divisions among you, but that you be
perfectly united in mind and thought.
(1Cor 1:10)​

I had AI gather a response on why this is? AI commentary in blue, you may want to do the same for all subsequent AI-generated text if so inclined.

AI Definition of BHS Reluctance:

The BHS is a profound spiritual experience that signifies the infilling of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life. This event is often accompanied by various spiritual gifts, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, and greater boldness in faith. However, despite its significance, the BHS often lacks visibility in many contemporary Christian discussions and teachings.

Several reasons contribute to this lack of visibility. Firstly, theological differences among Christian denominations lead to varied interpretations and emphasis on the BHS. While Pentecostal and Charismatic movements place a strong focus on this experience, other denominations may regard it as less central to their faith practice. Secondly, cultural shifts and secular influences have led to a general decline in spiritual discussions within public and private spheres.

Moreover, the rise of individualism in modern societies has often relegated communal and spiritual experiences to the background. The emphasis on personal belief systems and the privatization of faith have further diminished the collective acknowledgment and discussion of the BHS. Consequently, many believers may experience the BHS in isolation, without the support or understanding of their broader faith community.

Addressing this lack of visibility requires a renewed commitment to fostering open, inclusive conversations about the BHS within Christian communities. By sharing personal testimonies, engaging in theological dialogues, and educating believers about the significance and benefits of the BHS, the Christian faith can reintroduce this vital aspect of spiritual life into the collective consciousness.

 

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To clarify for those new to the subject, take however much time needed to digest the word on the ''one baptism'' in the following:

The Three-in-one of Baptisms

As dear sister in Christ, ‘tturt’ pointed out, there are three baptisms that ''agree in one'', which when combined under Christ, bring it into one baptism.

In Hebrews is found the rudimentary, ‘’doctrine of baptisms’’ (Heb 6:2). The above three are continued in 3 separate baptisms throughout scripture:

"And there are three that bear witness in earth,
the Spirit, and the water, and the blood:
and these three agree in one."
1 John 5:7-8

‘’, , one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Ephesians 4:5​

BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST BODY (BLOOD)
1. By The Holy Spirit is the baptism for salvation. Baptized into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27, +++)

When we become believers, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation: [BLOOD]in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Ephesians 1:13​

BAPTIZED by WATER and SPIRIT
Water and Spirit baptism follows – no chronological order required:
2. By another believer (water baptism) (Matt 28:19, Matt 3:16 Philip with the eunuch "...when they were come up out of the water..." Acts 8:39.

3. By Jesus with or into The Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) Believers already have the Holy Spirit but this baptism endures us with power for service. (Acts 1:5 8: Acts 8:14-17; 10:44-48, Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; Acts 11:16)'

 

[Richard T]

Some recognize more than just three baptisms. Here is just one list. 7 Types of Baptism in the Bible: What is the One Baptism?

Baptism into suffering for instance.
But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able." So Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared."

Baptism into Moses.
1 Corinthians 10:1-3 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food

You have a nice list of reasons why the BHS is not utilized by many. I tend to think that few are earnest enough to seek it. Also, In the past it has primarily come through a wave or more extreme move of the Holy Spirit, such as Azusu Street. Some of the more modern revivals tend to be too commercial, entertaining or misuse the gifts. I think the next wave will really break many of these barriers. Such a wave will be centered on contrite hearts that are the result of some earthly pressures. I suggest the latter though as the means to break up the status quo where much of the church is only lightly engaged. Somehow we have to get this fervor for God back.

 

[rocknanchor]

Some recognize more than just three baptisms. Here is just one list. 7 Types of Baptism in the Bible: What is the One Baptism?

Some good reviews in that link, then I ran across this statement in it:

''Passing spiritual gifts and the Spirit occur only through the laying on of the Apostles hands (Acts 8:17-19).''​

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That comment shows contempt for the Spirit's work and somehow overlooked the next chapter which proves differently,

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. ​

Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, ​

the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road ​

as you were coming here—has sent me so that you ​

may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 9:17)​

 

[rocknanchor]

You have a nice list of reasons why the BHS is not utilized by many. I tend to think that few are earnest enough to seek it. Also, In the past it has primarily come through a wave or more extreme move of the Holy Spirit, such as Azusu Street. Some of the more modern revivals tend to be too commercial, entertaining or misuse the gifts. I think the next wave will really break many of these barriers. Such a wave will be centered on contrite hearts that are the result of some earthly pressures. I suggest the latter though as the means to break up the status quo where much of the church is only lightly engaged. Somehow we have to get this fervor for God back.

Those who are watchmen over God's flock, will be in my prayers, as well as those whom He will send to the harvest. Here, with AI's instant gathering of mostly accurate handling of all Christian sects with the BHS. Showing those who have strayed at the expense of the bond of unity of the Spirit. Do advise if I have worked counter to His will !

Exploration of Diverse Interpretations and Practices of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit (BHS)

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit (BHS) is an event of profound spiritual significance, marking the infilling of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life. This transformative experience is often associated with various spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues, prophecy, and a deeper boldness in faith. However, the interpretation, emphasis, and practice of BHS vary widely across different Christian denominations.

Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements
Pentecostal and Charismatic movements place a central focus on the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. For these groups, the BHS is a distinct and subsequent experience to conversion, often evidenced by speaking in tongues (glossolalia). This phenomenon is seen as the initial physical evidence of the Holy Spirit's infilling. Additionally, these movements emphasize the continual presence and operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as healing, prophecy, and discernment.

Originating in the early 20th century with the Azusa Street Revival, Pentecostalism spread rapidly and has since become a global movement. Charismatic Christianity, which emerged in the mid-20th century, shares many of the same beliefs but tends to be more ecumenical, encompassing members from various denominations, including Catholic, Anglican, and mainline Protestant churches.

Roman Catholic Church
In the Roman Catholic Church, the BHS is closely associated with the sacrament of Confirmation. This sacrament is believed to bestow a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit, enriching the believer with strength to witness and live out their faith. While the Catholic Church recognizes the potential for extraordinary gifts (charisms) such as healing and prophecy, these are considered exceptional and are not the primary focus.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal, a movement within the Church that began in the 1960s, embraces a more Pentecostal-like understanding of the BHS. Participants seek a personal and experiential relationship with the Holy Spirit, often accompanied by speaking in tongues and other spiritual gifts.

Eastern Orthodox Church
The Eastern Orthodox Church views the BHS as integral to the entire process of Christian initiation, which includes Baptism, Chrismation (Confirmation), and the Eucharist. Chrismation, conducted immediately after Baptism, involves anointing with holy oil (chrism) and is seen as the believer's personal Pentecost, when they receive the Holy Spirit. The Orthodox tradition emphasizes the Holy Spirit's ongoing work in the believer's life and the importance of cultivating a relationship with the Spirit through prayer, fasting, and participation in the sacraments.

In the Eastern Orthodox understanding, the BHS is not marked by specific outward signs but is evidenced by a life of holiness and the fruits of the Spirit, such as love, joy, peace, and self-control.

Mainline Protestant Denominations
Mainline Protestant denominations, including Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and Reformed churches, generally view the BHS as occurring at the time of conversion or baptism. For these groups, the Holy Spirit is believed to be present and active in all believers, equipping them for service and sanctification. The emphasis is on the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in a believer's daily life, rather than on specific spiritual gifts.

Some branches of Methodism, particularly those influenced by the Holiness Movement, emphasize a "second blessing" or "entire sanctification," which is seen as a deeper work of the Holy Spirit, bringing about a state of Christian perfection and empowering the believer for service.

Evangelical Christianity
Among Evangelical Christians, the BHS is understood in various ways, often depending on the theological leanings of the specific group. Some Evangelicals align closely with Pentecostal and Charismatic beliefs, emphasizing a post-conversion experience accompanied by spiritual gifts. Others view the BHS as synonymous with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, marking the believer's regeneration and adoption into the family of God.

The common thread in Evangelicalism is the belief in the Holy Spirit's role in empowering believers for evangelism and personal holiness. The focus is on the transformative impact of the Holy Spirit in producing Christlike character and enabling effective witness to the gospel.

Theological Differences and Cultural Influences
The diversity of interpretations and practices surrounding the BHS is rooted in theological differences among Christian denominations. These differences are influenced by various factors, including historical context, scriptural interpretation, and cultural influences.

The rise of secularism and individualism in modern societies has also contributed to the lack of visibility of the BHS in contemporary Christian discussions. As communal and spiritual experiences become more privatized, the collective acknowledgment and discussion of the BHS diminish. Many believers may experience the BHS in isolation, without the support or understanding of their broader faith community.

Fostering Open Conversations
Addressing the lack of visibility of the BHS requires a renewed commitment to fostering open, inclusive conversations within Christian communities. By sharing personal testimonies, engaging in theological dialogues, and educating believers about the significance and benefits of the BHS, the Christian faith can reintroduce this vital aspect of spiritual life into the collective consciousness.

Sharing Personal Testimonies
Personal testimonies are powerful tools for bridging understanding and fostering a shared experience. By creating spaces where believers can openly share their encounters with the Holy Spirit, communities can build a greater appreciation for the diversity of the Holy Spirit's work.

Engaging in Theological Dialogues
Theological dialogues that respect and explore the various interpretations of the BHS can enrich the faith community's understanding. By examining scriptural foundations and historical developments, believers can gain a more comprehensive view of the BHS and its implications for their faith journey.

Educating Believers
Education plays a crucial role in fostering understanding and appreciation for the BHS. By offering teaching and resources on the Holy Spirit's role and the significance of the BHS, churches can equip their members with the knowledge needed to embrace and celebrate this aspect of their faith.

In conclusion, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a multifaceted and deeply significant experience within Christendom. While interpretations and emphases vary across denominations, the BHS remains a powerful testament to the transformative work of the Holy Spirit in believers' lives. By fostering open conversations, sharing testimonies, and providing education, the Christian community can bring renewed visibility and appreciation to this vital aspect of spiritual life.

But depending on how close to 1Cor 1:10 believers apply some level of aggrement to, spiritual responsibility would either succeed or fail as the OP passage points out, the flock will be scattered.

 

[Richard T]

Some good reviews in that link, then I ran across this statement in it:

''Passing spiritual gifts and the Spirit occur only through the laying on of the Apostles hands (Acts 8:17-19).''​

​

That comment shows contempt for the Spirit's work and somehow overlooked the next chapter which proves differently,

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. ​

Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, ​

the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road ​

as you were coming here—has sent me so that you ​

may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 9:17)​

Good catch, I only gave that website for the idea of the different baptisms, Obviously, they are off on the gifts of the spirit. I have seen the 7 batisms thought taught by some charismatics. Of course not all baptisms are required for salvation as certainly their importance varies.

 

[rocknanchor]

In another place and time, an Orthodox Priest (Non-CF-member) acquaintance, spoke of the pro and con of divisions as well as what separates each of their given persuasion. But only long enough to offer his perspective of what divisions ail the Body of Christ, for he soon withdrew his contributions of rich knowledge. Though I did enquire why so little visibility from him on that Christian website which has since ceased from the web?

‘’The reason why I have generally stopped posting on virtually every
internet forum is that I feel like a calculus teacher in an arithmetic class
arguing over what a plus sign means. It is too much.’’ – Father Harry​

He continues,

“There are three “groupings” of Christianity: Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox. I have made myself thoroughly knowledgeable about every grouping before even speaking a word on this forum or any other. It is disrespectful to even argue with me if you have not seriously looked at the 2000 year old Orthodox Christian position on the matters that we are talking about. I have looked THOROUGHLY at all of the protestant positions. Can you not reciprocate?”

As always, reciprocate only by GW. Though absent, I’ll be presenting his points on this in the near future to be used as reference to what divides the masses. Helpful ways, I hope.

 

[rocknanchor]

Orthodox Priest on the Possible Expanse of Christian Unity

''It is important for people to realize that there is not just "Protestant" and "Catholic," but also that there is "Orthodox," a third perspective that was never tied up in the "Reformation" or "Counter-reformation" so to speak, and that it is my job to make it known. So, I am doing so here. For those unaware of what I am referring to, here is an definition Of the Orthodox Church:

“official name Orthodox Catholic Church one of the three major doctrinal and jurisdictional groups Of Christianity. It is characterized by its continuity with the apostolic church, its liturgy...and has a worship service that is theologically and spiritually rich • (Eastern (Christianity) Britannica Online Encyclopedia).

Orthodox Christianity is neither Roman Catholic nor protestant. It is not a denomination. Denominations came in the protestant reformation, and have been multiplying ever since. I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR that the ONLY ONE OF THE THREE FORMS OF CHRISTIANITY, the youngest form, Protestantism has produced “denominations”, in that this was something that did not exist before the protestant reformation. Some of you judge Roman Catholicism based on a preconceived caricature of it and have never set foot inside a Roman Catholic

Church (others of you left, and Of course, I am not referring to you). But most of you, as already mentioned, have not, before this forum, even heard of Orthodoxy, nor did you know that it was distinct from both Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.

It should be said that the following writing Of Timothy Ware may not be as applicable as it once was, in that Roman Catholicism is in the process of rediscovering its ancient eastern roots, and the dialogue between Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity has drawn closer. Nonetheless, it gives the view that Orthodoxy had for centuries on the “Protestant-Catholic” debates:

"'All Protestants are Crypto-Papists,' wrote the Russian theologian Alexis Khomiakov to an English friend in the year 1846. ‘. . . To use concise language Of algebra, all the West knows but one datum a; whether it be preceded by the positive sign + , as with the Romanists, or with the negative sign -, as with the Protestants, the a remains the same. Now a passage to Orthodoxy seems indeed like an apostasy from the past, from its science, creed, and life. It is rushing into a new and unknown world. Khomiakov, when he spoke of the datum a, had in mind the fact western Christians, whether Free Churchmen, Anglicans, or Roman Catholics, have a common background in the past.

All alike (although they may not always care to admit it) have been profoundly influenced by the same events: by the Papal centralization and scholasticism of the Middle Ages, by the Renaissance, by the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. But behind the members of the Orthodox Church-Greeks, Russians, and the rest-there lies a very different background. They have known no middle ages (in the western sense) and have undergone no Reformations or Counter-Reformations. ; that have only been affected in an oblique way by the cultural and religious upheaval which transformed western Europe in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Christians in the west, both Roman and Reformed, generally start by asking the same questions, although they may disagree about the answers.

In Othodoxy, however, it is not merely the answers that are different-the questions themselves are not the same as in the west. Orthodox sees history in another perspective. Consider, for example, the Orthodox attitude toward western religious disputes. In the West it is usual to think of Roman Catholicism and Protestantism as oppostite extremes; but to an Othodox, they appear as two sides of the same coin.” (Ware, The Othodox Church, p.2)

Again, this statement of Khomiakov is certainly less applicable today, as T. Ware later points out that' Orthodoxy has in the recent past (first part of the 20th century) had a very cordial relationship with Anglicanism, and also has, in the even more recent past, found very much common ground with Roman Catholicism, as the two have drawn especially close in the past decades as Roman Catholicism has been rediscovering both its ancient roots in the east and west, and the two have been in very cordial and open dialogue, discovering less differences in thinking than what was previously thought. Nonetheless, Orthodoxy also sympathizes with the Protestant Reformation on a few points. Much of the Reformation came about because of innovations of the Roman Church such as indulgences, the "temporal fires" of purgatory, limbo, papal infallibility, the de-emphasis on Scripture (for a time, but NOT applicable today) etc. [note, to be fair, from the Orth. point of view they are innovations, from the Roman Catholic point of view they are doctrinal developments]. However, also to be fair, we must acknowledge that Rome also has some of the same sympathies for the past.''

 

[rocknanchor]

Orthodox Priest on the Possible Expanse of Christian Unity

''But once again we return to a difference on approach. Although h Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism have much in common, from an Orthodox perspective, Protestantism and Roman Catholicism have far more in common with each other than what they think: The very thing that Orthodoxy finds objectionable to the "new dogma" of the "immaculate conception" is the only thing that Protestants would agree with about the dogma: Original Sin. For the Christian East, original sin has never been about a transferred "guilt" of Adam, but rather about a transferred corruption and death of the sin of Adam. From the Orthodox point of view, a baby is not guilty of Adam's sin, but does inherit the “original" or "ancestral" sin, that is, death and corruption, and thus a tendency toward personal sin. The Creed of Nicea-ConstantinopIe speaks of "one baptism for the remission of sins." For Orthodox, there is a clear distinction between forgiveness and remission. The inherited ancestral sin requires remission (such as the remission of cancer), whereas personal sin requires both forgiveness and remission; forgiveness is found in repentance, remission in union With God.

I myself have made a long journey, but one that brought me full circle. believe that we must take a deeper look to be able to find ourselves in a place of reversing the divisions. I therefore urge all of you who despise denominationalism, and have only known protestantism or groups with a post reformation history (historically speaking) to take a closer look, without the prejudices of the past, without your "baggage" of preconceived notions or emotions against what you heretofore understood as "church," to look at those other two forms of Christianity that predate denominationalism: Orthodox Christianity and Roman Catholicism. l, of course, believe firmly in Orthodoxy, but I also find it to be good to be knowledgeable about the whole picture of Christianity and Christian history, about the good things not only of Orthodoxy but also of Roman Catholicism that perhaps you did not know, and to make an informed decision about where one is rather than just being complacently ignorant of the possible road that the Lord has set before you. I also believe that that gaps of the past are closing between the two, in that we are learning to see more of each other in each other.

In order to reverse the divisions of the past, we have to not look at creating a new thing, but on getting back to the well-founded thing that existed right from the beginning. The only way to do that is to look honestly at the newly created doctrines of the past several centuries invented by individuals that have resulted in yet further denominationalist divisions and individualist separations; to look at some of the valid things said by some, but to reject the innovated garbage Which sounds nice but distracts us from the otherwise true teachings that many now misunderstand (or reject under false pretenses or misunderstandings), that were held by the undivided Church in the first millennium. For those of you who find yourselves rebels to the end, although you may be nice people, this may not be the website for you.

You have considered the "what if those are wrong." But I ask you to ask yourselves, "what if one of these are right? What am I doing about it?"