Restoring Day of worship?

If one is only worshiping God on Sunday, then one has a problem with the relationship he has with God.

I would agree, but Sunday is the day of the Resurrection. Without the Resurrection Christianity is pointless.

Paul1965 said:

He explains how we are no longer under law in an understandable way.

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We are under law, ( the law of the land, the law of Christ, the law of freedom) but we are not under the old Jewish Law. Also we are not under any law for our salvation. Salvation is by Grace and (true Active)Faith.

By the way, what in the world is a Liberal Fundamentalist???

There is evidence that the early church before Constantine did worship God on Sunday and not Saturday.

The Didache


"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas


"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch


"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr


"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian


"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

The Didascalia


"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen


"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Sabbath or Sunday?

Paul1965 said:

I believe a liberal fundamentalist is someone who believes in the fundamentals of the Christian faith, but is open minded to look at others points of view that may be consistent with the fundamentals. Does that make any sense. Maybe not. Or maybe I believe in the fundamentals, but think many aspects our open to different interpretations, and that's ok.

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Thank you makes sense.

It would seem to me that early Christians would often worship on both Saturday and Sunday, up until the Jews permanently kicked them all out of the Synagogue.

I have little doubt that the Jewish Christians continued keeping the Sabbath even if the New Gentile Converts did not. And there was nothing wrong with that. There would be nothing wrong with Jews who became Christians today doing so either, though some may disagree with me, I think scripture is pretty clear that it's ok as long as they understand that the reasons for keeping the law have changed (since it's not what makes them ok with God anymore)

Interesting thread.

I guess I keep in mind what Paul wrote in Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16. A formal Sabbath or set-aside day is not an important part of the New Covenant. If it were, it would be clearly stated in the New Testement. I, too, have been exposed to the reasoning of the SDA Church and others who contend that the Sabbath is for all time. However, from these Scriptures (and others), I think now that the balance of the evidence is on the side of those who claim the day is not that important. But YMMV...and that's Paul's point in the Romans passage (and if he was just talking about festivals other than the Sabbath, why didn't he say so?)

As I've been studying scripture lately, this is what I discovered.

If you go to scripture looking for evidence that early Christians worshiped on Sunday, you'll find it. If you go to scripture looking for evidence that early Christians worshiped on Saturday, you'll find it too. The reason? The Early Christians didn't have one single day of the week in which they would gather together to worship, they literally did so every day. They would gather together every day to hear the apostle's teachings, and then they would split off into smaller groups and go to each other's home to share in fellowship, eating, praying, and discussing the apostle's teachings and how to live them out (that's my interpretation of devoting themselves to the apostle's teachings ) . They did this every stinking day. No wonder they were so close, and so much like a family. This is the real, genuine New Testament Christianity.

But for must of our Churches today, I think it's too New Testament for our taste. You know, we want to be New Testament, but we don't want to be THAT New Testament! That actually requires real dedication, and real connections with people. So we settle for the denominational practice of meeting once a week, and fool ourselves into believing that we're New Testament Churches.

Windlord said:

As I've been studying scripture lately, this is what I discovered.

If you go to scripture looking for evidence that early Christians worshiped on Sunday, you'll find it. If you go to scripture looking for evidence that early Christians worshiped on Saturday, you'll find it too. The reason? The Early Christians didn't have one single day of the week in which they would gather together to worship, they literally did so every day. They would gather together every day to hear the apostle's teachings, and then they would split off into smaller groups and go to each other's home to share in fellowship, eating, praying, and discussing the apostle's teachings and how to live them out (that's my interpretation of devoting themselves to the apostle's teachings ) . They did this every stinking day. No wonder they were so close, and so much like a family. This is the real, genuine New Testament Christianity.

But for must of our Churches today, I think it's too New Testament for our taste. You know, we want to be New Testament, but we don't want to be THAT New Testament! That actually requires real dedication, and real connections with people. So we settle for the denominational practice of meeting once a week, and fool ourselves into believing that we're New Testament Churches.

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Hi Windlord,

I think we should make a distinction between the basic ideas of the first-century church and those things that simply were for the particular time, place and culture of the first-century Mediterranian world. For exempt, few of us wear togas and robes, go around on sandals or bear feet, etc. You may laugh and say "but EVERYONE knows these things are not the essence of what God has shown us!"--and I would agree. But how to we distinguish between the "essential" and "non-essential"?

IMO, it is simply this: explicit commands of God are what is essential; we can also learn from the example's of the apostle's lives, but just because an apostle or the early church did something, it does not follow that we are asked to do so as well.

We could learn by the examples of Whabbi Muslims or Hasidic Jews. Both groups have--for whatever reason--decided that certain articles of clothing and/or cultural practices from a set period of time (7th century Arabia or 18th century Russia) are normative for all time (even if the sacred scriptures they follow do not explicitly state these are necessary.). Or perhaps the example of the Orthodox or Catholics who thing certain vestments (developed in a particular time and place) are somehow "timeless."

Jesus obviously came in a certain time and place...but His message is not bound by the culture or practices of that time or place. If there was a specific command in the New Testament covenant to follow Sabbath or to worship on Sunday, then it would not be a matter of negotiation. But since there isn't, I don't think we can dogmatically insist on one or the other merely because of practice. Likewise, if the NT commanded us to worship every day, going house to house, we would be remiss if we did not do or teach it. But if merely happened to be their custom, it is a matter or liberty, not commandment.

DanielRB said:

Hi Windlord,

I think we should make a distinction between the basic ideas of the first-century church and those things that simply were for the particular time, place and culture of the first-century Mediterranian world. For exempt, few of us wear togas and robes, go around on sandals or bear feet, etc. You may laugh and say "but EVERYONE knows these things are not the essence of what God has shown us!"--and I would agree. But how to we distinguish between the "essential" and "non-essential"?

IMO, it is simply this: explicit commands of God are what is essential; we can also learn from the example's of the apostle's lives, but just because an apostle or the early church did something, it does not follow that we are asked to do so as well.

We could learn by the examples of Whabbi Muslims or Hasidic Jews. Both groups have--for whatever reason--decided that certain articles of clothing and/or cultural practices from a set period of time (7th century Arabia or 18th century Russia) are normative for all time (even if the sacred scriptures they follow do not explicitly state these are necessary.). Or perhaps the example of the Orthodox or Catholics who thing certain vestments (developed in a particular time and place) are somehow "timeless."

Jesus obviously came in a certain time and place...but His message is not bound by the culture or practices of that time or place. If there was a specific command in the New Testament covenant to follow Sabbath or to worship on Sunday, then it would not be a matter of negotiation. But since there isn't, I don't think we can dogmatically insist on one or the other merely because of practice. Likewise, if the NT commanded us to worship every day, going house to house, we would be remiss if we did not do or teach it. But if merely happened to be their custom, it is a matter or liberty, not commandment.

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Oh, I don't think that it means we are all commanded to meet every day of the week. But the way that the early church did things denotes a powerful fellowship and kinship between believers that we are decidedly lacking in today's church. I'm not particularly interested in restoring a direct and complete order of commands to be followed. But what I want to restore is the same sense of community that the early Church had, the same sense that the Church really is a family. And while we may not be able to meet every day in this age and culture, we certainly don't meet often enough, nor do we put enough of an emphasis on fellowship. Too many Churches think that if you can just get them through the door for an hour to listen to a sermon, that's good enough. If we pushed things like small groups just as much as we did the importance of being at the Sunday Morning Service to sing a few songs and listen to a preacher, I think the Church would be a lot better off.

Windlord said:

Oh, I don't think that it means we are all commanded to meet every day of the week. But the way that the early church did things denotes a powerful fellowship and kinship between believers that we are decidedly lacking in today's church. I'm not particularly interested in restoring a direct and complete order of commands to be followed. But what I want to restore is the same sense of community that the early Church had, the same sense that the Church really is a family. And while we may not be able to meet every day in this age and culture, we certainly don't meet often enough, nor do we put enough of an emphasis on fellowship. Too many Churches think that if you can just get them through the door for an hour to listen to a sermon, that's good enough. If we pushed things like small groups just as much as we did the importance of being at the Sunday Morning Service to sing a few songs and listen to a preacher, I think the Church would be a lot better off.

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I agree, Windlord. A vital community is important. Yet community--in all spheres of life--is sadly lacking in modern western society. Yet a body wouldn't really last very long if the legs had nothing to do with the eyes, or the fingers seceded from the hands. I believe this is one of the prime reasons for weakness in the Church.

Hi all,

Firstly I wanted to say that the way you are all discussing this issue is truly Christian. This topic would have caused raging arguments ( along with a few??!? personal attacks thrown in for good measure) in other parts of CF.

I believe that we should keep the 7th day Sabbath. It should be a day of rest.

However, I still wrestle with how it should be kept.

Jesus said to pray that your flight isn't on a sabbath day in regards with the end times. He also says to keep His commandments which is to love Yahweh and to love your neighbors. The sabbath day is part of those 10 commandments written in stone.

What about Colossians 2:16-17 & Romans 14:5 ?

Apollos1 said:

You can't restore something that never existed.

Please note that only the Jews were given a sabbath day to observe. The Sabbath was a “sign” (Ex. 31:13) between God and Israel, given at Horeb – see Deut. 5. This was a day of REST – not a day of worship.

This covenant with Israel (the covenant referred to as “old” – ei. Hebrews 8:13), was made only with the Jews (cf. Romans 3:2, 28-29) and became obsolete (Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:7) after the cross (Hebrews 8:6).

There is a new covenant (Hebrews 9:18), that followers of Christ are to minister and worship under today (2 Corinthians 3:6, Romans 7:4).
This covenant does NOT contain a “sabbath” day.
Christians were not given a day of “rest”.

The Sunday factor…

Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1 – Jesus arose upon “the first day of the week….”
Acts 2 – Pentecost by Divine design always came on Sunday. (Lev. 23:15-16).
Acts 2 – The church was established on Sunday and “repentance and remission of sins” were preached first preached this Sunday in Acts 2 – and these that “gladly accepted the word” were “added to the saved”.
Acts 20:7 – The early church met on “the first day of the week” for communion.
1 Corinthians 16:2 – Early church “collections” were directed to be done “upon the first day of the week…”.

If Sunday is the “first day of the week” – and it is…
then the only scriptural conclusion I can make is that Sunday is significant!

It IS a matter of doctrine – as opposed to tradition.

Sunday is the day of significance for Christians today.
Scripture shows this to be certain.

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Agree on the first part of your contention, but disagree with the latter to some extent. Sunday, or the "first day of the week" begins at sundown on Saturday in the Biblical/Hebrew/Jewish context. Sabbath ends on Saturday eve at sunset. So, there is essentially no conflict with a Saturday evening or Sunday morning worship. Isn't it nice to have Liberty in Jesus! The idea that the first of the week can only be during the Sunday daylight hours is a western concept, not a biblical one.

Let's pick at things a little. Yes, Jesus rose on the first of the week, but he had already risen before the women went to the tomb at daybreak, according to the account written in scripture. No conflict so far. Pentacost does always come on Sunday, since Shavuot (Pentacost) comes 49 days following the sabbath after the passover. That still does not negate the fact that Sunday, in a Biblical/Jewish context, starts at sunset on Saturday evening. True, it was established that collecting the tithes and such were to be done on the "first of the week". But that is very scriptural anyway. No earthly work or association with work (including transfer of money) was allowed on the Sabbath. But then since the "first of the week" starts at Saturday evening sunset, one can meet and collect tithes and offering on Saturday evening.

Traditions and western mindset preconceptions on when a day starts have clouded a real simple issue here. There is no conflict when an issue like this is looked at in the setting in which it was established. The Sabbath was instituted as a day of rest. True. It was never contended in scripture that worship services were held on the Sabbath, except in the New Testament synagogs, of which Jesus Himself participated. Keep in mind though, that these sabbath gatherings were primarily for teaching not necessarily what we now view as a worship service. The first of the week was a significant thing, but it started on Saturday at sunset and ended on Sunday at sunset. To some extent, you are incorrect that Sunday is established doctrine as opposed to tradition. It is tradition that says the first of the week is only Sunday during the daytime and not Saturday evening. Thank you, Roman church for that one. Sarcasm intended.

Still see a conflict I don't?

And as for the Law not still applicable, that will be a shock to many during the reign of the Messiah in the millennial kingdom when the nations are required to go to Jerusalem and honor the feast of tabernacles and sacrifice at the millennial temple. You can research that one yourself in the writings of the prophets in the Old Testament. Might be wise to also study how the Sabbath is viewed in the Messianic kingdom period as outlined by these prophets as well. The old covenant law not applicable anymore? We'll see.

as i understand what God says in scripture, we are to worship in our hearts everyday, every hour, every minute. the jews gathered in assembly on the sabbath, a day of rest, seeing how they couldn,t do much else besides talk and listen. actually i'm surprised they could even lift and unroll the scriptures. the ..early christians especially the gentiles would meet on th first, to assemble, learn teach. not a lot about worship, it was taken for granted that worship was an everyday thing. worship on sunday isn't the reason i gather in christian fellowship. i worship God all the time.l do join for the assembling of the churc, corporate praise, communion, learning etc. also after christians were declared heretical by the san hedrin the use of the synagogues and temple were not welcome places for their assembly on the sabbath. but neither day that i can see was designated a day of worship, when worshipping God was supposed to be a way of life, everyday.