Notrash, you were rash in your reply, for you replied without reading the passageWhen was the first time? From Egypt?
Says you, in mis-understanding of the Gospel message which is given to the namesake people of the New Man name, which is a sign of the adoption which was to come for all who would be redeemed by adoption into the Living Spirit, which Abraham's name change oracled, and adoption into the flesh, which Jacob's name change oracled, and which adoption into the name you have not even yet attained to, in the flesh: but if you are born of the One Living Spirit/Christ/Messiah/The Anointed One, then you have the promise of, and hope for, by that adoption into the One Living Spirit.Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.
No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.
Malachi 2:15 He made them male and female, one spirit, because he sought godly seed/living sons.
I don't see it as rash. It doesn't say the second time of regathering from those places, but it could read that the second regathering would be from those places and not from egypt.Notrash, you were rash in your reply, for you replied without reading the passage
Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Whoa!I don't see it as rash. It doesn't say the second time of regathering from those places, but it could read that the second regathering would be from those places and not from egypt.
???
However, if the first regathering is intended to mean from babylon, assyria and so forth from @ 450 till @70 AD; then the second "RE-gathering" would have been from 70AD til 133-135 AD. This wss also prophecied in Ez 38:8 where it says that they would be brought back from the sword (deut 32:41,42) of 70 AD after the new, everlasting covt is established (deut 30:5-15; Ez 36:25-27;Jer 31:25-31 etc) for a second wave of reproving the new covt or a "double honor" (Is 61:7) for those who followed the way of fiath, peace and life of the words, authority and truths of Christ.
.
And the passage says the second gathering will be finished like this:Whoa!
The Word says the second gathering from those places:
The word sheniy/ שֵׁנִי is:
- second
- second (the ordinal number)
- again (a second time)
- another, other (something as distinct from something else)
and is from the Hebrew shanah / שָׁנָה "to repeat, to do again".
He scattered them twice, and He is gathering them the second time.
The two scatterings have two gatherings promised.
The last, second scattering was begun in 70 AD, and completed in 130 AD, and the second gathering back from those lands He scattered them into began in the 1800's, when He indeed sent the fishers =the Jewish Zionists- and the hunters =the anti Jewish Nazi's.
He has done it once, and He is doing it again.
There is no way under God's heaven to claim that the word does not mean the second gathering back for a second, repeated time, back to the promised land from those lands to which they were scattered, twice.
Your post does not stand by the Word of God, though, and my replies show that to be true.I'll stand by my post, thanks.
yeshuasavedme said in post 22:
The adoption pertains to natural Israel, the seed of Jacob.
Rom 9:4,5 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
yeshuasavedme said in post 22:
Ridiculous to try to make" no males, no females, no slaves nor freemen nor Jews nor Gentiles nor Israel of Jacob -and Abraham's seed through Isaac.
yeshuasavedme said in post 22:
Ridiculous to try to make" no males, no females, no slaves nor freemen nor Jews nor Gentiles nor Israel of Jacob -and Abraham's seed through Isaac.
yeshuasavedme said in post 24:
The last, second scattering was begun in 70 AD, and completed in 130 AD, and the second gathering back from those lands He scattered them into began in the 1800's, when He indeed sent the fishers =the Jewish Zionists- and the hunters =the anti Jewish Nazi's.
He has done it once, and He is doing it again.
Those who want to make it about Israel, never deal with this...Romans 9:6-8:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abrahams descendants, but: through Isaac your descendants will be named.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
Now Paul tells us in Galatians 3:16:
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, And to seeds, as referring to many, but rather to one, And to your seed, that is, Christ.
They never explain how that works...
You are the one ignoring clear scripture. Have you made a single comment on how God's call is irrevocable or any of the other obvious points in Romans 11?
Even though you try to divert attention from Rom 11 with Rom 9, I will address that very simple scripture. Not all of the Jewish race will be saved.That was difficult.
That could have been said 1000 years before Paul wrote it and just as well today. God judges the heart. It even applies to people that call themselves Christian.
Show me how your Rom 9 scripture in any way terminates God's call to the Jewish people. If you are a protestant you should understand we are saved by God's grace. Rom 11 says God will return his grace to the Jewish people.
But, it will not return like in the old days of the supremacy of the nation or the O.T. laws or temple. They will be called to turn from their rejection of Jesus that brought a curse on them in 70AD and continues to bring curses on them until they accept Jesus.
Gal 3:16 that you quote with NO explanation but dare to accuse others of not explaining it.
It simply means that the ONE that satisfies the requirements of the law was a descendant of Abraham. That would be Jesus. Faith in the promise of Jesus is what brought Abraham salvation just as faith in Jesus now saves us.
Romans 11 speaks much on the subject but my favorite verse is 29 as Paul speaks about the future of his Jewish brothers.
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for Gods gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that the too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of Gods mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Also verses 12 and 15 could possibly allude to Jesus 2nd coming and the resurrection soon after the Jews have accepted Jesus.
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
Of the two witnesses of Revelation 11, if you are one to interpret it symbolically I ask what event would cause the most people of this world to rejoice? I can not think the killing of any two individuals in today's politics could create any such rejoicing. Now a nuclear attack on the U.S. and Israel would destroy the economies and power of those two nations. It would create the biggest rejoicing among the enemies of God.
Remember Satan tried to prevent the fulfillment of prophecy by using King Herod to kill all the baby boys when Jesus was born. Satan will again attack Gods people.
Rev 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
Thid is first century applicable. Some of the then intact house of Israel were to be made jealous through the beæieving , gifts and spiritual fullness of the believers from outside the house of judah. (Rom 10:19)
The still unbelieving were not cast off but could come to faith like Abraham, Issac, Jacob (characterizing Father, Son and indwelling of those entities doctrines) The calling and election was irrevocable to leave the mosaic covt way and into the freedom of justification and freedom by faith They would then and only the no longer be animose towards the freed. The first century "second chance" through jeoalousy unto emulation can be seen in the words "now" in vs 28-32. This jealousy had been prophesied in deut 32:21 or 19.
.
I think Doug is referring to the two olive trees.
Jews/Gentiles
Why did the Jews fall in 70ad?
Rom 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
As we can see, God has clearly brought salvation to the heathen, one of the reasons being to provoke the Jews.
But God will not forget them.. Lets continue.
The Jews are the branches of the olive tree.
Rom
11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
But the Jews rejected Christ, and salvation was extended to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Gentiles/Wild olive tree branches grafted in.
We are not to boast against the Jews, saying they have no salvation and we do.
Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou (Gentiles) standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Any Jew who comes to Christ is regrafted into the original olive tree (Abraham)
Rom 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Christians who don't think the Jews can have salvation should not be in disbelief, for God is a God with no limitations and his will be done.
Rom 11:24
For if thou (Gentiles) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these (Blinded Jews), which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
When the fullness of the Gentiles is realized, blindness will be removed from Israel.
Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26-27
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Amen
Because that is not the issue. Romans 9 is stated before Romans 11, therefore you MUST take that into account. The issue is even clear in Romans 11 that Jews and Gentiles are ONE OLIVE TREE.You are the one ignoring clear scripture. Have you made a single comment on how God's call is irrevocable or any of the other obvious points in Romans 11?
How about Jesus in Matthew 23:37-39, or Romans 9:25, 26, or Romans 10:21? You want the argument to be about Israel...that's not the argument because Israel is now anyone who comes to Christ regardless of race...OR did you ignore Romans 2:28, 29? Pretty plain there that the TRUE Jew is anyone who comes to Christ! Ever read Colossians 3:3???Even though you try to divert attention from Rom 11 with Rom 9, I will address that very simple scripture. Not all of the Jewish race will be saved.That was difficult.
That could have been said 1000 years before Paul wrote it and just as well today. God judges the heart. It even applies to people that call themselves Christian.
Show me how your Rom 9 scripture in any way terminates God's call to the Jewish people. If you are a protestant you should understand we are saved by God's grace. Rom 11 says God will return his grace to the Jewish people.
No one denies that but the point still is WHO is Israel from God's viewpoint?But, it will not return like in the old days of the supremacy of the nation or the O.T. laws or temple. They will be called to turn from their rejection of Jesus that brought a curse on them in 70AD and continues to bring curses on them until they accept Jesus.
It's pretty simple. Isaac's seed is Jesus Christ, therefore one that comes to Christ IS ABRAHAM'S SEED! The seed is spiritual, NOT fleshly!Gal 3:16 that you quote with NO explanation but dare to accuse others of not explaining it.
So explain what Paul means in Galatians 3:25-29???It simply means that the ONE that satisfies the requirements of the law was a descendant of Abraham. That would be Jesus. Faith in the promise of Jesus is what brought Abraham salvation just as faith in Jesus now saves us.
Because such an idea is a different and abhorrent gospel.
No, far too many things no longer make sense, Paul's epistle to the Ephesians, written to non-believers they now participate in the commonwealth of Israel, there cannot therefore be a distinction between Believing Israel and the Church.
If you are not a Christian, you are a OT observing Jew, or a Gentile who believes in false gods, or no god at all.
And the Muslims worship Allah, the Arabic name of the God of Abraham (just read any Arabic language version of the Holy Bible)... Doesn't mean they are saved.They still worship YHVH, the same God who became flesh, as we know him to be Christ Jesus.
And by that criteria, even misguided Muslims!God hears all who call on him even the misguided Jews...
No such thing as an OT observing Jew today.
Today's Jews follow the cult of the Talmud, invented by men between 200 and 500 AD.
And the Muslims worship Allah, the Arabic name of the God of Abraham (just read any Arabic language version of the Holy Bible)... Doesn't mean they are saved.
And by that criteria, even misguided Muslims!
Such is Untenable.
Because that is not the issue. Romans 9 is stated before Romans 11, therefore you MUST take that into account. The issue is even clear in Romans 11 that Jews and Gentiles are ONE OLIVE TREE.
So what's your point?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?