Respectful Interfaith Discussions

[QuestionsRob]

I have a Christian background. Was once pretty fundamental but now cannot honestly believe some aspects of literal Christianity (like the exclusive nature of heaven, and any aspect of Hell).

I now feel that every human has a spiritual side - a feeling that leads them to believe in a God and wants to feel love and compassion etc within themselves. I see this as part of the human condition but not one that is available ONLY through any particular religion but that can be found in ANY religion or indeed with out any religion at all. Its the reason why people need religion - to give then the understanding of this spirit within that cannot otherwise be explained

Christ taught many great things about Human nature and how to live. I think he taught how one could know their spiritual side better - tune in to it so to speak and be at peace with themslevs and God. But I cannot really accept that there is no other way to God or to knowing / understanding this spiritual side other than faith in Christ and him alone. It can be found in anyone who wants to search for it.

Life is too complex to box it into a particular exclusive package

So I am wondering - are there Muslims, Jews, Hindus, agnostics - anyone! .. who feels the same way and would be willing to respectfully discuss each others common spiritual understandings. Even if you fully believe your own religion to be correct but you can also accept that what I say may have some truth in it i would like to hear from you

NOTE - This is not a DEBATE on the RIGHT and WRONGS of any one faith.
This is NOT for CHRISTIAN or MUSLIM or JEW to preach why this type of discussion may be wrong
It is not about scripture and verses unless they are positive and unifying

I am not looking for an argument but wondering about a possibility of harmony and unity

 

[Kris_J]

That would probably only work when cultural differences are addressed.

Christianity in its current form is very individualistic - from the one-on-one relationship with God to one's own private salvation regardless of who else is saved. On the other hand, other cultures that had ancestor-worship believe heaven is where their ancestors & families are.

 

[Theowne]

Woah. Can you read my mind? Just this morning I was thinking of making a post exactly like this one, with exactly the same title!

P.S. This also means I am wholly interested in pursuing this discussion. What would you like to begin with?

 

[Vedant]

I think we all don't want bad things happen in the world.

Yes?

What could possibly cause these bad things?

Human actions definitely cause harm in the world, but not all harm, such as the tsunami.

 

[CalUWxBill]

As an agnostic or seeker (could be considered either one), I don't know if I can say I have made any spiritual connection. But I contemplate life quite often. I wonder why I can call myself me, or why I am a living human being. I often hate saying these things to others because they come off as egocentric, but I feel extremely fortunate in my life. Born in a temperate climate, modestly busy area of one of the greatest and fairest civilizations in the history of our planet, born with limited physical disability, lived comfortably for most of my life, have a great and supportive family. When I think of what I have been blessed with in my life it's hard to imagine their not being something more than this random accident of evolution forming me. Not that I don't think evolution explains how humans came into being, just that it's hard to believe there wasn't anything beyond physical reactions that have went into my life. That said I have never been satisfied with accepting a certain religious belief. While, Christianity is the largest religion in the world, I see alot of other religions and can understand the processes that went into making Christianity what it is today, that being largely political in nature. So, just what is this spiritual side I am looking for. I really can't answer that, but I think the world is much more important than the individual. Whenever we have more than we need, we should look into how we can spread our excesses to help those in need. It's important, I think, that we all connect on some level of comraderie. If there is some spiritual connection that will help in that out, hopefully I will find it. However, I will also resist things that seem more superstitious than truely progressive in how we live our lives. Hopefully you guys can catch my drift.

Peace be with you all,
God Bless

 

[Gardenia]

QuestionsRob, it seems as though we are thinking along the same lines.

 

[9Harmony]

did someone say 'harmony'?

count me in.

 

[arunma]

I have a Christian background. Was once pretty fundamental but now cannot honestly believe some aspects of literal Christianity (like the exclusive nature of heaven, and any aspect of Hell).

I now feel that every human has a spiritual side - a feeling that leads them to believe in a God and wants to feel love and compassion etc within themselves. I see this as part of the human condition but not one that is available ONLY through any particular religion but that can be found in ANY religion or indeed with out any religion at all. Its the reason why people need religion - to give then the understanding of this spirit within that cannot otherwise be explained

Christ taught many great things about Human nature and how to live. I think he taught how one could know their spiritual side better - tune in to it so to speak and be at peace with themslevs and God. But I cannot really accept that there is no other way to God or to knowing / understanding this spiritual side other than faith in Christ and him alone. It can be found in anyone who wants to search for it.

Life is too complex to box it into a particular exclusive package

So I am wondering - are there Muslims, Jews, Hindus, agnostics - anyone! .. who feels the same way and would be willing to respectfully discuss each others common spiritual understandings. Even if you fully believe your own religion to be correct but you can also accept that what I say may have some truth in it i would like to hear from you

NOTE - This is not a DEBATE on the RIGHT and WRONGS of any one faith.
This is NOT for CHRISTIAN or MUSLIM or JEW to preach why this type of discussion may be wrong
It is not about scripture and verses unless they are positive and unifying

I am not looking for an argument but wondering about a possibility of harmony and unity

I think this depends critically on what you mean by "harmony and unity." If you mean to say that people of different religions should not practice violence against one another, that we should live peaceably with each other, and that we should work together to advance justice, then I wholeheartedly agree. For example, the Baptist pastor Martin Luther King Jr. fought for civil rights alongside atheists, Jews, and other non-Christians, and he won a great battle for righteousness. If this is the sort of behavior that you advocate, then I wholeheartedly agree, and I will join you in your effort for harmony and unity.

Of course, you may be speaking at a more theological level. Often times, people believe that Christians should participate in interfaith discussions, that we should help people of other religions to practice their religion even more devoutly, and that they should help us to be better Christians. It seems to me like a sugarcoated way of telling us: "stop converting people to Christianity," a goal which is accomplished by giving evangelists and theologians something else to occupy their time. If this is the case, then I respectfully disagree.

I strongly oppose this for the following reason. The problem is that Christ's teachings in the Bible point to him as the exclusive savior of the world. I need not even quote such passages as St. John 14:6 ("I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me."). The very notion of the Gospel omits any universalism. Christ was born for the specific purpose of dying as a sacrificial lamb. Christianity asserts that humans are inherently depraved, and that we cannot be saved according to our own righteousness. If this were not so, then the Son of God could have come to teach us good moral teachings, and perhaps left us Apostles, before returning directly to the Father. There would be no need for him to endure the torture of the crucifixion.

The Biblical authors emphasize salvation by grace through faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Therefore, Christianity is worthless as a religion if Jesus isn't the exclusive savior (his moral teachings are found in other religions too). This is why an interfaith discussion with a theologically orthodox Christian will always reach an impasse. Ultimately, we believe that we are right, which logically implies that everyone else is wrong. I'm certainly open to interfaith discussion up to this point. But one must be aware that this is our position on the issue of other religions.

Well anyway, I know you weren't looking for a debate, so I apologize if you see my post as an invitation to one. I certainly do not want to debate anyone on this thread (if anyone wants a debate, I'd be happy to entertain it in another thread), but I did want to address the most important question that you asked about the possibility of harmony and unity.

 

[Theowne]

-long post-

-->

This is NOT for CHRISTIAN or MUSLIM or JEW to preach why this type of discussion may be wrong

I would believe the notion that he was looking for harmony and unity within the boundaries of your teaching was excluded when he said de did not believe in exclusive notion of religion.

 

[arunma]

Oh, I didn't notice that he said, "why this type of discussion may be wrong." I thought, for some reason, that he meant to say that he didn't want anyone to prove or disprove the truth of any religion. I'm sorry about that, I ought not to have made this point here.

 

[Rae]

If you have any specific questions for an open-minded liberal Pagan polytheist, I'm here and would be glad to answer them.

 

[Aradia]

Here's a theravadin buddhist who believes there should be much more interfaith discussion of a respectful and harmonious nature.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I now feel that every human has a spiritual side - a feeling that leads them to believe in a God

Then why don't I believe in a god, or feel any desire to?

 

[QuestionsRob]

Hi All thanks for the posts.

Arunma - I have found your posts to be fair and well written. However your view that Christianity IS exclusive means that you are excluded from this post! No offence meant! I am sure we will cross paths again in another thread - I hope so
Also excluded are people who feel no one should believe in any God. I am sure they have other threads to keep them busy - Again no offence


I was talking to an elder in my Church the other day and he told me of a time when he was in Oz working. A colleague over there was Hindu I think and they got involved in many deep religious discussions. Eventually she said to this Elder 'You know I think the God I pray to si the same God you pray to. We just have different names for him and our cultures mean that from the outside these Gods are very different'

I think there is truth in this ... If a Muslim sees a person being wrong treated or abused in anyway and feels compasion for that person.. is that not the same as a Christian doing the same thing. Is this not an act of the heart that all religions teach is a spiritually sourced act?

This is the first stepping stone of where i think there may be spiritual commonality in all people. Any takers?

 

[TooCurious]

I think there is truth in this ... If a Muslim sees a person being wrong treated or abused in anyway and feels compasion for that person.. is that not the same as a Christian doing the same thing. Is this not an act of the heart that all religions teach is a spiritually sourced act?

This is the first stepping stone of where i think there may be spiritual commonality in all people. Any takers?

I think this touches on the idea that came into my mind to post when I read the OP: Each of us is a person, a human being, before s/he is a member of a religion or spiritual tradition. That commonality, that humanity, is what should unite us, in my opinion. It is also what should allow us to maintain a basic respect for one another, and for each other's beliefs, regardless of the differences in those beliefs.

In other words, I think this was a wonderful OP, and huzzah for you, for posting it.

 

[Theowne]

A colleague over there was Hindu I think and they got involved in many deep religious discussions. Eventually she said to this Elder 'You know I think the God I pray to si the same God you pray to. We just have different names for him and our cultures mean that from the outside these Gods are very different'

Certainly. I cannot understand when people say things like "Christian God is better than Muslim God". To me, they are the same God. Both religions are trying to reach the higher divine presence, and that presence is the same for everyone, isn't it? If two people call someone on the phone and one person thinks his name is Jon, and the other thinks his name is Jim, they're still talking to the same person. I will never understand the idea that God is affected by labels - he will only listen to prayers sent out by someone with a Christian label and not another.

Looking for spiritual commonality, we start here -> spiritual traditions have started up across the entire world on their own. That, in my opinion, is the first commonality between them.

 

[Silvertongue]

I have a Christian background. Was once pretty fundamental but now cannot honestly believe some aspects of literal Christianity (like the exclusive nature of heaven, and any aspect of Hell).

I now feel that every human has a spiritual side - a feeling that leads them to believe in a God and wants to feel love and compassion etc within themselves. I see this as part of the human condition but not one that is available ONLY through any particular religion but that can be found in ANY religion or indeed with out any religion at all. Its the reason why people need religion - to give then the understanding of this spirit within that cannot otherwise be explained

Christ taught many great things about Human nature and how to live. I think he taught how one could know their spiritual side better - tune in to it so to speak and be at peace with themslevs and God. But I cannot really accept that there is no other way to God or to knowing / understanding this spiritual side other than faith in Christ and him alone. It can be found in anyone who wants to search for it.

Life is too complex to box it into a particular exclusive package

So I am wondering - are there Muslims, Jews, Hindus, agnostics - anyone! .. who feels the same way and would be willing to respectfully discuss each others common spiritual understandings. Even if you fully believe your own religion to be correct but you can also accept that what I say may have some truth in it i would like to hear from you

NOTE - This is not a DEBATE on the RIGHT and WRONGS of any one faith.
This is NOT for CHRISTIAN or MUSLIM or JEW to preach why this type of discussion may be wrong
It is not about scripture and verses unless they are positive and unifying

I am not looking for an argument but wondering about a possibility of harmony and unity

A very interesting post, and very noble as well.

I'm not convinced there is a deity or anything of that nature, but I do consider myself a very "spiritual" person. That connection of love between two people is where I feel it the most...the desire and wanting to ease the pains and sufferings of others. Sometimes I do wish that I had a name and a face to put on these feelings within me, but I've come to realize that living those feelings out and allowing them to manifest themselves in my every thought, word, and deed is more important than finding the correct religious label.

My personal hero, Anne Frank, had this to say, which I feel somewhat ties into all this:

People who are religious should be glad, since not everyone is blessed with the ability to believe in a higher order. You don't even have to live in fear of eternal punishment; the concepts of purgatory, heaven and hell are difficult for many people to accept, yet religion itself, any religion, keeps a person on the right path. Not the fear of God, but upholding your own sense of honor and obeying your own conscience. How noble and good everyone could be if, at the end of each day, they were to review their own behavior and weigh up the rights and wrongs. They would automatically try to do better at the start of each new day and, after a while, would certainly accomplish a great deal. Everyone is welcome to this prescription; it costs nothing and is definitely useful. Those who don't know will have to find out by experience that "a quiet conscience gives you strength.!"

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I now feel that every human has a spiritual side - a feeling that leads them to believe in a God and wants to feel love and compassion etc within themselves. I see this as part of the human condition but not one that is available ONLY through any particular religion but that can be found in ANY religion or indeed with out any religion at all. Its the reason why people need religion - to give then the understanding of this spirit within that cannot otherwise be explained.

There's a charming (I think) midrash (a rabbinical homily) that as we develop in the womb, an angel comes to us and teaches us all about God, but that just before we are born, the angel touches us and causes us to forget what we have learned. And since angels are made of fire, the angel's touch leaves a mark, namely the indentation in the center of our upper lips.

Now you can certainly ask, if we are made to forget what we have learned, what's the point of learning it in the first place? Our Sages answer this with a parable. A young prince was travelling in the royal coach once through a forest. At some point he heard the most beautiful, soul-stirring, moving music that he had ever heard. The music enchanted him & he could not get it out of his head. As he grew up, and became king, he spent the rest of his life trying to recall, set down and have played to him this haunting music that never left him.

The angel's fiery touch leaves its mark but we do not entirely forget what it has taught us. This knowledge of the Divine and of spiritual things lingers in our sub-conscious, lurking just below the surface of full awareness. It drives us & motivates us to seek to add spirituality to our lives.

We all (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bahais, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, seekers, etc.) speak the same language. Only our dialects are different.

Be well!

ssv

 

[Silvertongue]

We all (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bahais, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, seekers, etc.) speak the same language. Only our dialects are different.

Indeed. Here's some more quotes I like that express the same sentiments:

The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers.

There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages has different names. It is, however, pure, and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no forms of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity. In whomsoever this takes root and grows, of what nation whatsoever, they become brothers in the best sense of the expression.

 

[ravenscape]

I was talking to an elder in my Church the other day and he told me of a time when he was in Oz working. A colleague over there was Hindu I think and they got involved in many deep religious discussions. Eventually she said to this Elder 'You know I think the God I pray to si the same God you pray to. We just have different names for him and our cultures mean that from the outside these Gods are very different'

I very much feel this way, that the Divine is more complex and more encompassing than we can fathom, and that there are many ways to find that Divine, within and without.

I think there is truth in this ... If a Muslim sees a person being wrong treated or abused in anyway and feels compasion for that person.. is that not the same as a Christian doing the same thing. Is this not an act of the heart that all religions teach is a spiritually sourced act?

There have been some interesting studies on behavior in the animal kingdom that would appear to be self-sacrificing, or compassionate. Among wasps, for instance, degree of similarity in the genotype was greater among siblings than among parent-child, and the degree of self-sacrificing behavior was tied to the degree of genetic similarity.

Preservation of one's genotype may be a biological imperative that expresses in ways outside reproduction and child nurture. Human behavior, culture and sociology can't be quantified in terms of genetic similarity, but it's still interesting to think about how these imperatives may come into play.

Which is a longwinded way of saying that despite being a spiritual and religious person, and despite feeling strongly that my sense of compassion and empathy are a large motivation in my interactions with others, I am not sure how best to apportion these impulses between biology, psychology and spirituality.

This is the first stepping stone of where i think there may be spiritual commonality in all people. Any takers?

I hope so!