Requirements for a pastor

Newmom123 · Jul 8, 2004

I grew up in a PCA church, so when I came to a new church (non-denominational), I was shocked that the assistant pastor not only did not graduate from seminary and pass an ordination exam... he doesn't even have a college degree. His messages lack substance and often show he didn't do much study of the word. I think he's more of a "feel-y" type who relies on tons of prayer when preparing for a message rather than study of the Word.

don't get me wrong... prayer is THE most important thing, but am I alone in thinking that this is a bit... how shall I say this... not the best way to do it?

I really like the church, but this church relies heavily on "how to live a Christian life" messages rather than learning more about Christ so we can live more like him and rely more on him. Almost legalistic in that it focuses more on works than grace.

Am I alone in thinking this? What do I do about church? Should this be the "deal breaker" or should I just deal with it?

What do you all think about pastors without formal education?

servant4ever · Jul 8, 2004

Well, the first disciples didn't get their MDiv (Masters of Divinity) from any seminary... They were just ordinary people. Yes, people argue that Jesus taught them, but they didn't have classes on sermon preparation or preaching skills...

I hope this helps a little,

servant4ever

carine · Jul 8, 2004

I believe that people can be good teachers of the word without going to bible schools and have seen better teachers within brethren who havent been to bible schools who know the word more.But really its important for you to be where the word is being preached correctly than where the pastor has some formal qualification its is up to the individual to study Gods word. Some people become pastors as a job and its not a calling from God.No such thing as a perfect church though!

Newmom123 · Jul 8, 2004

servant4ever said:
Well, the first disciples didn't get their MDiv (Masters of Divinity) from any seminary... They were just ordinary people. Yes, people argue that Jesus taught them, but they didn't have classes on sermon preparation or preaching skills...

I hope this helps a little,

servant4ever

Point taken.

Although with that argument, I would also argue that healers in Jesus's day didn't have M.D.'s. I would definitely expect someone to have an MD to work on me medically. Yes, bad example, but all I'm saying is that with the vast knowledge there is about the Word and the fear of incorrect preaching, is it far fetched that I would trust someone who has read the Bible in Greek... and not learned about the Bible merely from reading commentaries?

Newmom123 · Jul 8, 2004

Or maybe my problem is actually with the teaching of the assistant pastor... and the fact that he hasn't been to seminary just solidifies my questions about his teaching. Who knows.

servant4ever · Jul 8, 2004

But, also some people who have a Dr. of Ministry degree (or whatever, they have a Dr. in front of their name) have been leaders of great heresies. For example, Greg Boyd, whom has a Doctorate, is considered a heretic because he is a leader of Open Theism... I think if the Spirit is with them, they can do great preaching, but if they don't, they won't be doing the best job for the Lord.

Newmom123 · Jul 8, 2004

Agreed. The education doesn't guarantee solid teaching... but an experiential Christian without a solid foundation in the Word is like a tree planted on a rock.

We are to love the Lord our God with our heart, soul, and MIND.

I believe that our knowledge of the Word and about God is the basis for our experience.

The pastor's job is to point the congregation to Christ. How can that be done if the Word isn't taught?? If the entire message is about how we need to serve the homeless without explaining WHY... how is that going to move true heart change? At best, a person will follow because they think they are "supposed to."

Newmom123 · Jul 8, 2004

Oops... I meant a tree planted on shifting sand.

cyberwood · Jul 8, 2004

Joy · Jul 8, 2004

carine said:
I believe that people can be good teachers of the word without going to bible schools and have seen better teachers within brethren who havent been to bible schools who know the word more.But really its important for you to be where the word is being preached correctly than where the pastor has some formal qualification its is up to the individual to study Gods word.
Yes, Carine as someone who has been to Bible School I know not all good bible teachers need attend college but the individual who teaches God's Word needs to do so with the combination of personal study and the power of the Holy Spirit.
While I agree that it is important for all Pastors to be able to communicate God's Word effectively, it is true to recognise that not every pastor is gifted with all gifts. That is surely why the non-denominational churches came into being, because it was recognised one man could not function effectively doing everything and this is why team ministry operates within so many of the newer churches. Your assistant Pastor may be the first to admit he is not gifted in bible teaching But he may be gifted in prayer and relating to others on a one to one basis.

Karen

Breetai · Jul 8, 2004

servant4ever said:
But, also some people who have a Dr. of Ministry degree (or whatever, they have a Dr. in front of their name) have been leaders of great heresies. For example, Greg Boyd, whom has a Doctorate, is considered a heretic because he is a leader of Open Theism... I think if the Spirit is with them, they can do great preaching, but if they don't, they won't be doing the best job for the Lord.

When did you find that out(about Greg Boyd)?

Mother Vashti · Jul 8, 2004

It depends. Do you require a salary?

Newmom123 · Jul 9, 2004

karen dean said:
carine said:

I believe that people can be good teachers of the word without going to bible schools and have seen better teachers within brethren who havent been to bible schools who know the word more.But really its important for you to be where the word is being preached correctly than where the pastor has some formal qualification its is up to the individual to study Gods word.
Yes, Carine as someone who has been to Bible School I know not all good bible teachers need attend college but the individual who teaches God's Word needs to do so with the combination of personal study and the power of the Holy Spirit.
While I agree that it is important for all Pastors to be able to communicate God's Word effectively, it is true to recognise that not every pastor is gifted with all gifts. That is surely why the non-denominational churches came into being, because it was recognised one man could not function effectively doing everything and this is why team ministry operates within so many of the newer churches. Your assistant Pastor may be the first to admit he is not gifted in bible teaching But he may be gifted in prayer and relating to others on a one to one basis.

Karen

Click to expand...

Agreed... but don't you think that in order to disciple others, it should be based on the WORD and not just experience? I feel often that the messages are based more on what to do rather than what Jesus has done for us. Honestly, I have watched a few messages on a LDS channel and I almost find no difference in the message!... and that saddens me.

servant4ever · Jul 9, 2004

Breetai said:
When did you find that out(about Greg Boyd)?

People consider him to be a heretic because of the Open Theism stance. I do not agree with that, but I was just saying him as an example. Also, his website (www.gregboyd.org) mentions that he has a doctorate in philosophy.

Breetai · Jul 9, 2004

servant4ever said:
People consider him to be a heretic because of the Open Theism stance. I do not agree with that, but I was just saying him as an example. Also, his website (www.gregboyd.org) mentions that he has a doctorate in philosophy.

I was really asking you that question because I thought that you had considered him to be correct before.

servant4ever · Jul 9, 2004

oh, I see

I don't think he is a heretic because I am an Open Theist I was just saying some people think he is, I was just using that as an example, I couldn't think of any other "controversal" people who had a Dr. in front of their name at that moment, as I was debating Open Theism and Calvinism in another thread at that time, so I had that on my mind.

Newmom123 · Jul 9, 2004

where is that open theism and calvinism thread? I'd love to read it!

servant4ever · Jul 9, 2004

Well, the most recent one didn't turn out very productive. The other person and I started bashing each other's beliefs... If you want to know more about those beliefs, you can go to www.gregboyd.org for the Open Theism side and I know there are Calvinist sites, but I don't know the best one to send you to regarding their beliefs... But, if you want to read it, it's under the Soteriology Board in the thread about election...

servant4ever

bliz · Jul 9, 2004

If this pastor's lack of education, and the fact that is is clear and apparent in his preaching, is a problem for you, perhaps you need to look for another church. It is hard to be in a church if you are going to have a hard time with sermons from one of the frequent preachers.

I believe that anyone who is in ministry needs to know the Word, and know it well. That can happen through self study, but it is much more difficult to do that way, and picking up Greek and Hebrew on your own is VERY difficult. There are more college and seminary programs being offered in various creative ways for those in ministry who do not have degrees and I think that is an excellent help to those who have the gifts but are unable to carve out several years of study from their existing responsibilities.

Formal study does not guarantee a great preacher or pastor. But an uneducated preacher or pastor will not be harmed by some formal study and will almost certaily benifit greatly.

CaptainMatt · Jul 9, 2004

We shouldn't rely on anyones teaching, not even if they are some very well known Pastor. Pastors are human. Humans fail. We should check what they say with the Bible. We should only Rely on the WORD.

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