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Republican vs. Libertarian

Lady Bug

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Can anyone give me perspectives on how these two differ?

Both are supposed to advocate smaller government (and states' rights?) but aside from that - what are the differences between these two?

(yes I know there's wikipedia LOL but I like to hear other human beings express their perspectives and not only an encyclopedia article LOL)
 
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Zoness

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Well eh, a very vague way I would put it is "to each his own". As long as what you do doesn't encroach on the freedom or safety of others you should be free to do what you want. Obviously a lot less government regulation so for some examples: Patriot Act goes byebye because its a privacy rights disaster, sexuality is not defined by the government, no government subsidation of industries and total free marketing. Another position is the military must remain voluntary and that the USA should avoid entangling alliances and being "world police" a view I am a staunch supporter of.

These are not my opinions they are the official positions of the LP, if you have further interest I recommend checking Libertarian Party | Smaller Government | Lower Taxes | More Freedom. This isn't may native forum so I will leave you alone now.
 
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Sketcher

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Libertarians are generally more socially liberal than Republicans. They tend to support legalized drugs and gay marriage, while opposing pro-life efforts. They're not too fond of the War On Terror either.

The Libertarian Purity Test - not perfect, but it does give you an idea. Specifically, how far the rabbit hole can go.
 
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Lady Bug

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Libertarians are generally more socially liberal than Republicans. They tend to support legalized drugs and gay marriage, while opposing pro-life efforts. They're not too fond of the War On Terror either.

The Libertarian Purity Test - not perfect, but it does give you an idea. Specifically, how far the rabbit hole can go.
hmmm I guess I can't say I'm libertarian:scratch:
 
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porterross

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Libertarians are generally more socially liberal than Republicans. They tend to support legalized drugs and gay marriage, while opposing pro-life efforts. They're not too fond of the War On Terror either.

The Libertarian Purity Test - not perfect, but it does give you an idea. Specifically, how far the rabbit hole can go.



This characterization is simply not true. The description of a free-for-all ideal shows a lack of understanding of the basic premise of personal responsibility and accountability, which are more to the heart of the matter.

It's more a matter of denying the government's authority over personal behavior, especially when its intent is to force citizens to conform to its point of view. Just as no one here can make someone else a Christian, nor can a government make someone tow the party line. We can't force people to accept Christ and attend the church we think best, conform to our way of thinking, etc., nor can the government control individuals and Libertarians don't like the idea of any government or church trying to do either, which is why we see what is called liberalism for what it is, which is socialism.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Libertarians are generally more socially liberal than Republicans. They tend to support legalized drugs and gay marriage, while opposing pro-life efforts. They're not too fond of the War On Terror either.

The Libertarian Purity Test - not perfect, but it does give you an idea. Specifically, how far the rabbit hole can go.

Exactly who are you looking at to provide you with this synopsis? NONE of the libertarians I know are anything like this.
 
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arunma

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As someone who gets a lot of crap for being Democrat and pro-life, I'm probably the last one to speak on this. But one thing that's always confused me is how a Libertarian Christian can hold any sort of viable pro-life position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Libertarians favor giving more power to local governments as opposed to centralizing authority. Aren't you then forced to conclude that abortion should be a community issue, and that any individual community is free to allow it?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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As someone who gets a lot of crap for being Democrat and pro-life, I'm probably the last one to speak on this. But one thing that's always confused me is how a Libertarian Christian can hold any sort of viable pro-life position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Libertarians favor giving more power to local governments as opposed to centralizing authority. Aren't you then forced to conclude that abortion should be a community issue, and that any individual community is free to allow it?

I think that might be slightly incorrect. Liberatarians take the stance that abortion is personal and each person should conduct themselves in a way that honors their conscience, or something along those lines.

I've honestly never met a pro-abortion libertarian.
 
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Lady Bug

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I think that might be slightly incorrect. Liberatarians take the stance that abortion is personal and each person should conduct themselves in a way that honors their conscience, or something along those lines.
is this any different though than being pro-choice? just asking.
 
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arunma

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I think that might be slightly incorrect. Liberatarians take the stance that abortion is personal and each person should conduct themselves in a way that honors their conscience, or something along those lines.

I've honestly never met a pro-abortion libertarian.

Thank you for explaining.

However, I still run into the same difficulty. I (and I assume most other pro-lifers) would say that abortion is not a matter of personal conscience, much like conventional murder is not a matter of personal conscience. This is because a person's decision to abort a child doesn't just affect the person, but infringes on the child's right to live. In fact, the Libertarian stance seems to be identical to the stance of most pro-choicers. Your average pro-choicer isn't some demon possessed person eager to abort fetuses (although such people do exist). Most pro-choicers claim that although they would personally not abort a child, they believe that people should retain the right to do so. Pro-lifers, on the other hand, claim that abortion is an act that infringes on another person's rights, and thus cannot simply be left to personal conscience. So if I understand the libertarian position, then it is essentially a pro-choice position.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding anything here.
 
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Sketcher

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As someone who gets a lot of crap for being Democrat and pro-life, I'm probably the last one to speak on this. But one thing that's always confused me is how a Libertarian Christian can hold any sort of viable pro-life position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Libertarians favor giving more power to local governments as opposed to centralizing authority. Aren't you then forced to conclude that abortion should be a community issue, and that any individual community is free to allow it?
There are different strains of Libertarian. Don't forget, Ron Paul ran as a libertarian in 1988, and he talks about his pro-life convictions in his book.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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As someone who gets a lot of crap for being Democrat and pro-life, I'm probably the last one to speak on this. But one thing that's always confused me is how a Libertarian Christian can hold any sort of viable pro-life position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Libertarians favor giving more power to local governments as opposed to centralizing authority. Aren't you then forced to conclude that abortion should be a community issue, and that any individual community is free to allow it?
Well, subsidiarity is a libertarian principle, but it's a conservative principle too. That is, necessary government ought to be at the most local level practical for what needs to be done. Libertarians and conservatives generally agree it isn't practical for each city or neighborhood to make laws about matters like robbery and murder, nor is it necessary to get the federal government involved.

So criminal law is mainly a matter for the states. So... if abortion is murder, murder is a state matter, not a local matter and not a federal matter. And last I checked (2004 I think, so this might well be outdated) that was the official LP position: that there should be no federal involvement with abortion, pro or con. Pro-life libertarians usually favor outlawing abortion at the state level.

 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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Thank you for explaining.

However, I still run into the same difficulty. I (and I assume most other pro-lifers) would say that abortion is not a matter of personal conscience, much like conventional murder is not a matter of personal conscience. This is because a person's decision to abort a child doesn't just affect the person, but infringes on the child's right to live. In fact, the Libertarian stance seems to be identical to the stance of most pro-choicers. Your average pro-choicer isn't some demon possessed person eager to abort fetuses (although such people do exist). Most pro-choicers claim that although they would personally not abort a child, they believe that people should retain the right to do so. Pro-lifers, on the other hand, claim that abortion is an act that infringes on another person's rights, and thus cannot simply be left to personal conscience. So if I understand the libertarian position, then it is essentially a pro-choice position.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding anything here.
Yes, there is a misunderstanding there. A libertarian may believe a woman should have the right to abort her baby or may believe the baby's right to life is the more important right to be protected. Either position is fully consistent with libertarian thinking.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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is this any different though than being pro-choice? just asking.

Not really, but as I said, I know no pro-choice libertarian personally.

Generally, they don't believe the government belongs in the decision making - that the decision is with the persons involved.
 
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JimfromOhio

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Why am I considering Libertarian Party? I am one Republican who wants to see a return to traditional values that must come from the people, not the government. "We the People" are the true government. Historians have stressed Lincoln's use of and redefinition of republican values that he highlighted the moral basis of republicanism, rather than its legalisms. However, I don't see this happening because of the "far right" members of the party. Some Christians want government set up their way, which mean they want Theocracy rather than Democracy. Political and Christianity will always be divided no matter how hard we try. We need to change idealism of the conservatives. They have adopted about how things "should be done" which often gets challenged by the way things are in reality. I have learned that democracy does not give me any real power at all because in God's providence, He allowed democracy to basically swamps each of us Christians among non-believers. Lately, many conservative Christian leaders are hypocrites and they are no help to the people of America.

Christians would realize that initiating coercion to achieve desirable social goals is out of accord with true Christianity and we should not be advocating a kind of theocracy. For an example, homosexuality is condemned outright in both the Old and New Testaments. In the United States, Christians have the right, in a free society, to make their case against homosexual conduct. What Christians should not do is advocate force to be used against homosexuals. The main issue would be that I look at "what morality is being legislated" more than if morality is being legislated. My problem with the Republican Party is that if the politicians can't control their own moral, why should the average Americans? Moral reasoning is individual or collective practical reasoning about what, morally, one ought to do. How do we sort out which moral considerations are most relevant?

The United States Constitution endorses no religion or set of moral codes. The U.S. Constitution do not mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment. Many founders were believers themselves and they were well aware of the dangers of church-state union. Our nation's governing document ensures religious freedom for everyone.

Christianity is not United States Government.

Christianity is Jesus Christ.

I believe that Libertarian Party will help Christians set up the government the way it should be. I am thankful that I do not live in an oppressive narrow kind of government however, you may notice that we live in a very oppressive narrow kind of society. Christian Grace is about loving other people who are very different and that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. A Christian life in this world should be different from the world, being in the world but not of the world. There are religions teach that God is all justice while others say that God is all love. People become arrogant like the philosophers who have their own concepts, views, ideas and theories of what the world can be or should be. When we conceive ourselves to be honest seekers who cannot accept such myths (or truth) that we are in a state of dangerous self-deception which is a grave situation. Our flaw, blunder or shall I frankly say our sin is to follow what we are born with and ignore what we can be born-again with. It is not the Bible but rather the Spirit of God within us leads us to better understanding of the Living Word. If a spiritually dead person tries to read the Bible, is the Bible working for them? Jesus did not promise any of us that consistent Christian living would be easy!

Christian Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. A Christian life in this world should be different from the world, being in the world but not of the world. A humbled Christian is a Christian with flaws which humbles them that is more useful to God than hypocrite action that puffs them up. Charles Elliot said it nicely, "Hypocrites we are: but we are on the way to liberation even from our own hypocrisy". James 1:26 says, "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless."
 
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