Repentance - a "Pre-Requisite" or a "Post-Requisite?"

[DerSchweik]

Some say repentance is a pre-requisite for salvation while others say it is not though it must follow salvation as a post-requisite.

Both views see repentance as a requisite for the Christian, but the question is, is it required before one becomes a Christian, or after?

The first view, repentance is a pre-requisite to salvation, states that one does not become a Christian without first repenting of their sins, that salvation follows repentance. This view holds that salvation cannot come to an unrepentant sinner, that repentance is a decision of the individual to turn away from their life of sin and follow God.

The second view, that repentance follows salvation, states that one becomes a Christian first, by God's grace, then comes to repentance of their sins, that God's Spirit, now indwelling the new Christian, leads them to repentance in accordance to His kindness and grace once He has saved them.

I am interested in knowing your views and reading your reasons/support for either view.

In Him,

 

[SpiritDriven]

You came close with the second view point but still managed to miss by a mile.

We believe because we found out via Gods word that we are already saved....we are not saved because we decided to believe.

The Repentance God is calling all people too, is not what you may think.......

When you come to the relisation that all of Mankind is already saved because of what Jesus did at the Cross....and you stop trying to make yourself right with God via your own actions and deeds....then you have Repented.

Repentance of Sin ?

Read Romans chapter 8, and you will see the Repentance God is calling all peoples too.

Peace

 

[SpiritDriven]

From Romans Chapter 8.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do not post back that you think there is somthing you have to do, to make yourself right with God....you will just be minding after the Flesh....

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

It is not about what you do or do not do, it is about what Christ has already done....

Give up on yourself and anything you can do or not do, to make yourself right with God....

Then you have repented.....

Repentance of Sin ?..... you focusing on what you do again ?....that is walking after the flesh.....you must come to know how helpless we are before God....there is nothing you can do or not do to make yourself right with him.

Jesus took care of that at the Cross....we are all flesh and blood stuff ups....hooray for Jesus and what he did for us...we the ungodly are justified !....now you are walking by the Spirit!

Do you understand the difference now....between who is really walking after the flesh....and who is walking after the Spirit!



Peace

 

[DerSchweik]

SpiritDriven - thank you for your input. I appreciate the reply.

I must confess I have honestly never ever heard this position before, at least stated thus.

What I put forth as the second proposition above I actually paraphrased from a paper posted on a well-known and popular ministry’s website whose views on works w/r to salvation are representative of much of modern pop-Christianity’s views. I did so because that proposition was the first time I ever heard that view of repentance put forth before and I wanted to understand where it comes from and thought I might get some good feedback here. So what you wrote is that much more of a “head-scratcher” to me than the other was.

I pray you (and all who may read this) will take what I say in the spirit intended. Understand too I did not intend such a lengthy response as this, but felt the nature of the topic warranted more than just a simply reply.

With all due respect, what you repeated has an almost mystical quality to it, a sort of doctrinal "letting go and letting God" help us to a sudden realization, to a sort of “epiphanous ‘aha!’” moment that we already have salvation, and that indeed everyone already has salvation, they just need to “get it” (figuratively speaking of course).

I find this a particularly untenable position to hold inasmuch as if salvation is a function of “getting it” or not then those who “don’t get it,” who will get damnation instead, are condemned solely on the basis of whether their salvific light bulb went on or not (“bright people to the right, dim people to the left&#8221.

Consider too, the position that holds a decision to believe [in Christ] is somehow a work. We must realize that all belief, religious or secular, is a decision, a personal choice. We believe nothing that we did not choose to believe. And the same is true of unbelief. Unbelief is a decision – it is a personal choice not to believe.

Think about it – belief does not just happen, just capriciously appear or plant itself by fiat; we are presented with data (sometimes factual, sometimes not), that we must process, that we must reason to some end. At this very moment, you are deciding whether you will or will not believe what I am writing, are you not? It is my hope you will believe, which is why I am writing – to persuade you.

This is why God has given us His Word – to persuade us to believe, to get us to make a personal choice to reason through what He is saying and come to a decision one way or another. “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Jn 6:29). God is trying to persuade us, but He leaves it up to us to decide. In no way should this be construed as a work; rather, it is a simple response.

God spoke to the Hebrews through Moses and promised them rest in a land He would give them, if they would obey Him. But they needed to believe Him first, choosing to obey Him. He refused to allow a generation of them to enter His rest because He was angry with them and so He let them wander in the desert for forty years. “And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:18f). Those who fell in the desert, who failed to enter the Promised Land, chose not to obey God, chose not to be persuaded by His miracles and displays of power, and chose not to believe. Hence, they chose unbelief. But some, (e.g. Joshua) chose to believe and they did enter, and not of their own merit, or out of their own righteousness, but because they chose obedience to Him and so He permitted their entry into His rest.

Even Jesus learned obedience, in that which He suffered, so that He would become “to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation” (Hebrews 4:9).

I wholeheartedly agree and affirm that Jesus' work on the cross was for all mankind - but we know too, and Jesus is clear that not everyone will be saved, in fact, few will be saved (“the gate is narrow, and few will enter it” etc.). So how should we understand His work being for all mankind? We should understand it quite simply as being available for all mankind. The NT is replete with admonitions to believe in Him, to reason through the gospel message and make a choice, deciding based on its truth and our desire to enter into His rest eternal.

To hold that anything we do w/r to salvation is somehow a work – ergo, to hold we must do nothing to be saved, is an untenable position at best. The flaw in this position concerns the inherent difficulty, no, the practical impossibility in doing nothing. How do those who hold this position expect we do nothing? What does that mean? Is reading the Bible doing nothing, yet being persuaded by its truths and choosing to accept them not doing nothing (i.e. a work)? Nowhere in the Bible does God expect us to “do nothing” w/r to our salvation, anymore than the nobleman expected his slaves to do nothing with the minas he had given them for business. Most did something with the minas they received, and were rewarded; one did not and lost everything.

Understand that a “work” is something we do by way of pursuing righteousness on our own merits, rather than pursuing the righteousness that is of God, based on Jesus’ merit. But any doctrine that suggests a decision on our part to choose Christ, having reasoned through, and been persuaded by His Word, then having come to decide to believe and obey it that that is somehow pursuing a righteousness based on our own merit is a lie, and is not of God – especially when the main point of the message is “do nothing.” It is, and always has been the goal of our adversary, the great liar and deceiver that we do nothing, for our inaction, our indecision, our hesitance to respond only empowers him to act in our stead.

I absolutely know that on my own, I cannot make myself right with God, that nothing I can do will save me based on my own merits or worthiness. So I choose to let His word persuade me, I choose to decide to believe in His word as truth, I choose to obey His gospel, I choose to repent and confess Him as Lord, to be united with Him in the likeness of His death; in other words: I choose to respond to His grace. Where is the inherent merit in any of that? Where is my cause to boast in the benefits I receive, the benefits He graciously and mercifully gives me? If I boast, I boast in the cross, in what He has done for me. He is the one who justifies me, not me. Moreover, choosing to respond to His grace, to His gospel is a blessing! For what is the alternative? The alternative is to have no choice whatsoever, either to believe or to disbelieve! Where is the good news in that?

My brother, I urge you to reason through more thoroughly what others have taught you, because what you have been fed needs to be challenged and tested, and because you seem too smart to believe, to be persuaded by a doctrine that has the appearance of wisdom, but is lacking on so many levels.

I love you as my brother in Christ, otherwise I would not have written so forcefully.

Perhaps we remain miles apart on this matter, but I pray that some of what I share herein would indeed persuade you to revisit what you have been taught. Regardless, I pray we are able to continue together in our fellowship in Him.

Grace and peace to you.