Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Clare73 · Mar 20, 2021

HIM said:
It is to be the same Spirit. It will not lead you to sin or me. That is our own doing. If one does not observe the Sabbath they have not guarded, kept what God has placed in their heart, the commandments, His Word, His Spirit through Christ. Therefore they are sinning, Missing the mark. That what God has intended. A life in Him through Him.

In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest
through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath.

Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant.

Bob S · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
You wrote, "pescador, are you aware that the covenant given to Israel was conditional?"

Yes.

And You are aware that the Israelites didn't meet the requirements of the covenant?

The broken covenant was revoked, Israelites lost the promised land and the Levitical priesthood. Since there is no Sinai covenant Judaism has become a farce.

pescador · Mar 20, 2021

Bob S said:
And You are aware that the Israelites didn't meet the requirements of the covenant?

The broken covenant was revoked, Israelites lost the promised land and the Levitical priesthood. Since there is no Sinai covenant Judaism has become a farce.

Yes, I'm aware that the Israelites didn't meet the requirements of the covenant, nor has any non-Christian.

Psalm 148:5-6, "Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for he gave the command and they came into existence.
He established them so they would endure;
he issued a decree that will not be revoked.

Hebrews 8:13, "When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete [but not revoked]. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear." Note that this does not say it has disappeared.

The First Covenant has not been revoked. The Second Covenant is a better covenant than the first, but it's not a replacement.

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

Clare73 said:
In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest
through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath.

Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant.

That is not biblical

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
The Mosaic law is written in what we refer to as the Old Testament. It is available in many formats: printed Bibles, Torah scrolls, online, etc.

If you live by the Law then you had better start buying some animals for sacrifice on the altar. Or do you follow just part of the Law?

Christians live by the law because it is in their heart and mind. God’s word has became part them it is in their heart and mouth through Christ. It becomes part of who we are. If this is not then we are not.

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
Well I guess that, by your reasoning, if one does not observe the Sabbath they have not guarded, kept what God has placed in their heart, the commandments, His Word, His Spirit through Christ. Therefore they are sinning, then Jesus and His followers were sinners because they violated the Sabbath. Obviously that is not the case, so you reasoning is wrong.

Matthew 12:1-8, "At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on a Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pick heads of wheat and eat them. But when the Pharisees saw this they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is against the law to do on the Sabbath.” He said to them, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry— how he entered the house of God and ate the sacred bread, which was against the law for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the law that the priests in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are not guilty? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what this means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

I guess you missed the part that Christ said they were guiltless? Wait I see you highlighted it. How is you do not understand? If the disciples were guiltless that means they were not guilty of breaking it not that the Sabbath was not.

pescador · Mar 20, 2021

HIM said:
That is not biblical

Clare73 wrote in post #1421: "In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath.

Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant."

This is biblical. In fact, it's a basic truth of the New Covenant.

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

HIM said:
He did not brake them down to two to follow.

He said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:40

Hang = suspends or depends, not brake them down to two to follow. Please don't insert or assert what is not there.

Hang is translated from the Greek word κρεμάννυμι. Here is Strong's and Thayers' entry. Also provided is what words was the word used for to translate the Hebrew in the OT to the the Greek in the LXX.

κρεμάννυμι
kremannumi
krem-an'-noo-mee
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to hang: - hang.

LXX related word(s)
H2388 chazaq = fasten
H5414 natan hoph. = give
H8511 tala = suspend
H8518 talah qal,ni,pi = suspend

Thayer Definition:
1) to hang up, suspend
2) to be suspended, to hang
2a) used of one hanging on a cross
2b) used of the Law and the Prophets, they is summed up or hanging on two precepts
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a prolonged form of a primary verb
More in NTW: G6408

~Cassia~ said:
But apparently loving God and others is the focus point.

Yes we can’t guard, keep the the others unless we have, love for God and our fellow brothers and sisters in our hearts also Cassia

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
Clare73 wrote in post #1421: "In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath.

Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant."

This is biblical. In fact, it's a basic truth of the New Covenant.

No it is not

Nathan@work · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
Yes, I'm aware that the Israelites didn't meet the requirements of the covenant, nor has any non-Christian.

Psalm 148:5-6, "Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for he gave the command and they came into existence.
He established them so they would endure;
he issued a decree that will not be revoked.

Hebrews 8:13, "When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete [but not revoked]. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear." Note that this does not say it has disappeared.

The First Covenant has not been revoked. The Second Covenant is a better covenant than the first, but it's not a replacement.

Hebrews is quoting scripture before Christ came. Now that He has come, the scriptures have been fulfilled. Just because it hasn’t ‘vanished’ does not mean it is still in use.

Do you know what obsolete is?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Mar 20, 2021

HIM said:
Yes we can’t guard, keep the the others unless we have, love for God and our fellow brothers and sisters in our hearts also Cassia

Good point

LoveGodsWord · Mar 20, 2021

Clare73 said:
In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath. Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant.

This is not biblical. Scripture support showing why these claims are eisegesis here linked (reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say or teach).

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
Good point

It is nice talking to ya. Not saying this because we are agreeing, but because you are polite.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Mar 20, 2021

HIM said:
It is nice talking to ya. Not saying this because we are agreeing, but because you are polite.

Conversing on a debate forum does seem odd doesn’t it. Thanks, u 2

HIM · Mar 20, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
Conversing on a debate forum does seem odd doesn’t it. Thanks, u 2

A little, but it shouldn’t.
Hopefully it will catch on.

pescador · Mar 20, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Hebrews is quoting scripture before Christ came. Now that He has come, the scriptures have been fulfilled. Just because it hasn’t ‘vanished’ does not mean it is still in use.

Do you know what obsolete is?

No, what is obsolete?

Nathan@work said:
Hebrews is quoting scripture before Christ came. Now that He has come, the scriptures have been fulfilled. Just because it hasn’t ‘vanished’ does not mean it is still in use.

Do you know what obsolete is?

No, what is "obsolete"?

Also, what does "Just because it hasn’t ‘vanished’ does not mean it is still in use" mean? Either the First Covenant is in effect or it isn't. Your reply is sophistry.

Nathan@work · Mar 20, 2021

pescador said:
No, what is obsolete?

No, what is "obsolete"?

Also, what does "Just because it hasn’t ‘vanished’ does not mean it is still in use" mean? Either the First Covenant is in effect or it isn't. Your reply is sophistry.

The old covenant is obsolete.

Just because the old covenant hasn’t ‘disappeared’ does not mean it is in effect. It is obsolete.

Look up the word. It will tell you.

pescador · Mar 20, 2021

I know what obsolete means. What it DOES NOT mean is that it has disappeared.

Having the second covenant in effect does not remove the first. Read the Bible!

Romans 7:21-25 might help you understand...

So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

SabbathBlessings · Mar 20, 2021

Clare73 said:
In the New Covenant, we observe a much better Sabbath, in God's own full-time Sabbath rest
through our full-time salvation-rest in Jesus Christ, not just one day a week as in the OT Sabbath.

Just one of the many improvements of the New Covenant over the Mosaic Covenant.

God's Sabbath is a weekly Sabbath according to God. Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20:8-11. It's a commandment and something we are supposed to do- keep His Sabbath day holy. His laws in the Second Covenant are written in hearts and minds require our love by our actions by keeping all of His commandments which includes the 4th. The 4th commandment is no different than any of the others, it is something we are commanded to do. You are not gifted rewards (God's rest) without our faith and dedication to keeping God's commandments. His commandment was not telling Christ to give us rest. We are told to hallow His Sabbath Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. It's a sign that we are God's people when we keep each and every seventh day holy, as it is a day of communion between us and our Savior and is how God's knows us when we keep all of His commandments. Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

I can't help but wonder if less people would be opposed to the 4th commandment if it didn't require our time. Maybe something to think about.

Clare73 · Mar 20, 2021

imge said:
God's Sabbath is a weekly Sabbath according to God. Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20:8-11. It's a commandment and something we are supposed to do-

We do rest (Exodus 31:17; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:14). . .and in the NT we do God's own full-time rest in the full-time salvation rest from our own works to save, and our rest in Jesus' work which has saved us.

And we enter God's own full-time Sabbath rest only by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sin and right standing with God's justice.

keep His Sabbath day holy. His laws in the Second Covenant are written in hearts and minds require our love by our actions by keeping all of His commandments which includes the 4th. The 4th commandment is no different than any of the others,
it is something we are commanded to do.

And we do in the NT. . .in Gods own full-time rest.

You are not gifted rewards (God's rest) without our faith and dedication to keeping God's commandments. His commandment was not telling Christ to give us rest. We are told to hallow His Sabbath Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. It's a sign that we are God's people when we keep each and every seventh day holy, as it is a day of communion between us and our Savior and is how God's knows us when we keep all of His commandments. Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

I can't help but wonder if less people would be opposed to the 4th commandment if it didn't require our time. Maybe something to think about.

I really, really like God's own full-time Sabbath rest of the NT, where the work of justification/salvation is done by Jesus Christ for me.

And I like assembling with the brethren on Sunday for Bible study, the Pastor's word, worship and the Lord's Supper, in remembrance of him and as a proclamation of his death until he comes.

Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

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