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I explained it in post 1270 but I like how you answered a question with a question.
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I explained it in post 1270 but I like how you answered a question with a question.Your confusing me.
So what makes the 10 commandments Gods, but the rest not?
Sorry, I was too confused that I didn’t think about your questions.I explained it in post 1270 but I like how you answered a question with a question.
Just because Sabbath is mentioned does not make the ritual Sabbath requirement binding on Christians now does it? If you are referring to Heb 3-4 then you are completely missing the boat. The Jews were already observing the weekly Sabbath, so if we take your account of the verses, we find the author of Hebrews writing to the choir. The Sabbath keeping Israelites didn't enter God's Rest. The Sabbath that God gave to Israel was not the Rest He had for them. Jesus said he is the Rest we can get from Him. Matt 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.Bob, nice to see you.
Let's talk scripture......
Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated all through the new testament (scripture support linked) as a requirement for Christian living. Jesus and the Apostles all through the new testament scriptures upheld, practiced and taught us that the fruit of God's salvation through God's gift of grace through faith is obedience to the faith and God's law *Romans 1:5 (more scriptures here).
The BIG "BUT". There is no but in Jesus' promise to us LGW. All of your scriptural references are for naught. Do you actually believe those who read your posts will go so far as to look up each verse you suggest?We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.
Love is expressed through our Savior Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, and I believe Paul, 2Cor3: 7 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, ...LOVE IS NOT SEPARATE FROM LAW IT IS EXPRESSED THROUGH IT!
Where there is no law there also is no sin. You are the one who is telling us it is a sin to not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant that was given only to Israel. Nowhere, in all of scripture, is scripture telling anyone else we are subject to an Israelite only law. You are spreading a falsehood LGW and you know itJesus says unless we are born again to love we cannot see the kingdom of Heaven in John 3:3-7. Those who are born again do not practice sin according to John in 1 John 3:6-9 and those who do have not seen God or know him *1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23.
Just checking Jer 31 you quoted as being about ❤. Just another case of either you didn't check the verses before entering the text or you are trying to deceive hoping we will not open the texts. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,We need a new heart to love and that is what God's new covenant is as shown in the scriptures in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 10:26-31. God knows us that we are all sinners in need of His salvation and Grace *Matthew 9:12-13 and without Gods help we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42.
James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.According to the scriptures we cannot separate Gods' love from God's law as God's love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says that on the two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul says the same thing as Jesus when he shows in Romans 13:8-10 that love is expressed in obedience to the 10 commandment to our fellow man and that love to man is simply a summary of obedience to God's 10 commandments. This is also agreed to by James when he shows in James 2:8-12 that love is not expressed through breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments.
And Jn was quite correct. Since there is no law concerning the keeping of a day how could we be sinning for not observing something that is not there?According to the scriptures sin according to John is the transgression of God's law *1 John 3:4 and those who practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Unless we are born again into God's new covenant promise to love we cannot see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3-7).
Quite true, John surely didn't lie. The fact is though you are misleading those you tell about Sabbath observance. John is very plain what the commandments are and he tell us in 1jn 3:19-24. 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.1 John 5:2-4 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
This is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments.
Big word there unbelief.
How is it they were in unbelief?
A evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Sticking with the context of the passages unbelief in this instance is talking about the deceitfulness of sin. This is furthered emphasized in the next few verses.
We are warned not to harden our hearts as in the provocation, the grieving of God for forty years. With whom was he grieved forty years? How did they provoke? Was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? So take heed and exhort one another daily lest any of us be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end. Confidence, living a life trusting him and His ways. Unhardened through the deceitfulness of Sin, departing from the living God.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Unbelief from the Greek word ἀπιστία. Here is BDAG citation.
ἀπιστία, ας, ἡ (s. ἀπιστέω; Hes., Hdt. et al.; LXX, Philo, Joseph.; Just.; Tat. 32, 2; Ath. R. 60, 15 al.; s. Mayser 11f, 130)
unwillingness to commit oneself to another or respond positively to the other’s words or actions, lack of belief, unbelief (Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 155, 11; Jos., Ant. 2, 327; 19, 127) in our lit. always with God or divine action as referent (cp. Cercidas Iamb. [III B.C.], fgm. 18 II, 8 Coll. Alex. p. 217 [=Anon. in turpilucrum 74: AnthLG, Diehl3 fasc.3=Knox 1929 p. 234]; Plut., Coriol. 232 [38, 4], Alex. 706 [75, 2] ἀ. πρὸς τὰ θεῖα καὶ καταφρόνησις αὐτῶν, De Superstit. 2 p. 165b; Ael. Aristid. 47, 66 K.=23 p. 462 D.; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 118 ἀ. πρὸς τὸν τοῦ κόσμου παντὸς εὐεργέτην [w. ἀχαριστία], Mut. Nom. 201 al.; Jos., Ant. 10, 142). As response to Jesus by inhabitants of Nazareth Mt 13:58; Mk 6:6; a parent of a possessed pers. 9:24; disciples Mt 17:20 v.l. (for ὀλιγοπιστίαν); of some Judeans [ἀ]π̣ιστεί̣[α] PEg2 19; of Israelites toward God Ro 11:20 (τῇ ἀπιστίᾳ=because of their unbelief; ACharue, L’Incrédulité des Juifs dans le NT 1929; on the dat. of cause Schmid III 57; IV 59; M. Ant. 3, 1; ins in ENachmanson, Eranos 11, 1911, 220–25), 23; Hb 3:19. διακρίνεσθαι τῇ ἀπιστίᾳ waver in disbelief Ro 4:20. ἐποίησα ἐν ἀ. while I was still an unbeliever 1 Ti 1:13. καρδία πονηρὰ ἀπιστίας an evil, unbelieving heart Hb 3:12 (on the gen. s. Mlt. 74).—Among Christians w. διψυχία 2 Cl 19:2; w. ἀνομία GJs 20:1 (not pap). Personif. as one of the chief sins Hs 9, 15, 3. (Opp. πίστις) IEph 8:2.—As a characteristic of this age (w. ἀνομία) ending of Mark (16:14) in the Freer Ms. ln. 2.
lack of commitment to a relationship or pledge, unfaithfulness (X., An. 3, 2, 4 et al.; UPZ 18, 5 [163 B.C.]; Wsd 14:25; Philo, Spec. Leg. 2, 8, Decal. 172; Jos., Ant. 14, 349) Ro 3:3 (JGriffiths, ET 53, ’41, 118).—M-M. TW.
Right their unbelief was due to their rebellion, Their rebellion was in the form of sin. Their sinning showed they did not trust God. Therefore they were in a state of unbelief through their disobedience. Because they refused to commit themselves to our Lord and Savior."Hath God said?" (Ge 3:1)
I won't be equivocating with you on the meaning of "unbelief."
Heb 3:12 - sinful, unbelieving heart
Heb 3:13 - sin's deceitfulness
Heb 3:19 - they were not able to enter because of their unbelief
Unbelief is sin. Unbelief is deception.
What you are asserting above is an assumption that is not even implied in the letter anywhere.[NB: There is an issue of not holding firmly, of falling way (rebellion, apostasy) by the NT Hebrews that the writer is addressing. They were considering a return to their OT religion, perhaps because of persecution by their fellow Hebrews, or threats of their families to disinherit them, or both.
Where is that paraphrase of Rom1:5 from?God's grace is so we can be obedient? Rom 1:5 does not say that at all. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. The verse is about calling the Gentiles to obedience. I can only believe you write those verses in order to impress us to think you really have studied all of them and that they confirm your thoughts. I have called you out on your misuse of them many times, yet you continue.
There is no such thing as a ritual Sabbath except if your referring to the old covenant ceremonial sabbaths in the annual feast days and the sin offerings. Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-12 is a "memorial" Sabbath and celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth that Jesus says he made for all mankind, and He is the Lord of it and commands us to keep it as a holy day of rest *Exodus 20:8; Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28. There was no JEW, no ISRAEL, no sin when God made the Sabbath for all mankind Bob *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. There was only mankind in Adam and Eve who were without sin before the fall of mankind into sin on the seventh day of creation. Sorry Bob, Hebrews 4 is talking about two rest. One is the gospel rest of believing and following Gods' Word those in the wilderness did not enter into because of their unbelief and sin *Hebrews 3:12-13; 17-19; Hebrews 4:2. The other is God's rest/My rest/His rest *Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrew 4:1; 3-4; 5; 10 which Hebrews 4 defines as the seventh day Sabbath from the foundation of the world in Hebrews 4:3-5 meaning is that Gods rest/His rest/My rest is the "seventh day Sabbath that God rested on in the "seventh day" of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Only those therefore who receive the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word enter into God's rest (the Sabbath rest). Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.Just because Sabbath is mentioned does not make the ritual Sabbath requirement binding on Christians now does it? If you are referring to Heb 3-4 then you are completely missing the boat. The Jews were already observing the weekly Sabbath, so if we take your account of the verses, we find the author of Hebrews writing to the choir. The Sabbath keeping Israelites didn't enter God's Rest. The Sabbath that God gave to Israel was not the Rest He had for them. Jesus said he is the Rest we can get from Him. Matt 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Your response here.LoveGodsWord wrote: We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.
Not really Bob but let me show you why. Grace is not a license to sin as posted above it is for obedience to the faith and yes the scripture does indeed say that. Here it is again Romans 1:5 {KJV} By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name. The verse is talking about all nations, all people, the gospel commission that started with the Jews and continued to the Gentiles stating that Grace is for obedience to the faith, being the teachings of God's Word. Grace is for obedience to Gods' Word. Grace is not for disobedience to Gods' Word. This is what God's Word teaches. Sorry Bob, I think the scriptures disagree with you here.The BIG "BUT". There is no but in Jesus' promise to us LGW. All of your scriptural references are for naught. Do you actually believe those who read your posts will go so far as to look up each verse you suggest? God's grace is so we can be obedient? Rom 1:5 does not say that at all. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. The verse is about calling the Gentiles to obedience. I can only believe you write those verses in order to impress us to think you really have studied all of them and that they confirm your thoughts. I have called you out on your misuse of them many times, yet you continue.
Indeed love is expressed through our Savior. God's law is a representation of God's character of love. This is why Jesus says "On these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40.Love is expressed through our Savior Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, and I believe Paul, 2Cor3: 7 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory,
Not really Bob. It is God's Word not mine that says sin is the transgression of God's law in 1 John 3:4 and that through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20. Paul makes this very clear that he is talking about the 10 commandments when he applies this to thou shalt not covet in Romans 7:7. James goes on further and states if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments in James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin. These are all new testament scripture Bob. Jesus says think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19). Those who are called the least in God's Kingdom are the ones that do not make it there. So to try and claim that there is no law now goes against all the scriptures of both the old and new covenants as everyone of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment Sabbath is repeated as a requirement for Christian living to new covenant believes (need more scripture; Here linked and Here linked). As posted earlier God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 if we are not a part of God's ISRAEL than we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believer are now grafted in with Jewish believers *Romans 11:13-27 and we are all one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13;Where there is no law there also is no sin. You are the one who is telling us it is a sin to not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant that was given only to Israel. Nowhere, in all of scripture, is scripture telling anyone else we are subject to an Israelite only law. You are spreading a falsehood LGW and you know it
Jeremiah 31:31-34 was quoted because it is what Paul is quoting from in the old testament scripture where God describes His new covenant in Hebrews 8:10-12. Note very carefully who this new covenant promise is addressed to Bob...Just checking Jer 31 you quoted as being about ❤. Just another case of either you didn't check the verses before entering the text or you are trying to deceive hoping we will not open the texts. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israe and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” Those verses are about forgiveness and remembering, not love. "God's help"? What percent of God's help do we need. I believe it is 100%. Without God in the form of the Holy Spirit dwelling in our hearts we cannot ❤.
Agreed James is quoting two of the 10 commandments as examples showing that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. This of course includes God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" which is one of God's 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 20:8-11.First of all, I would like to point out that Jemes was not claiming favorites. We was treating laws from the ten commandments and from the book of the Law.
Agreed James is quoting two of the 10 commandments as examples showing that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. This of course includes God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" which is one of God's 10 commandments as shown in Exodus 20:8-11.
The NIVWhere is that paraphrase of Rom1:5 from?
Call is not in the Greek, nor is it implied.
KJV Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
LSV
Rom 1:5 through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, in behalf of His Name;
Yes, thank you!I thought I answered it pretty clearly.
"Personally. I think this verse refers back to God's Ten that He wrote and spoke."
I then went to explain why.
Does this answer your question?
Well, it definitely includes God's Ten. Do you agree with that?Yes, thank you!
So there are just 10 commandments of God, in your view.
And, a person may end up doing things from other commandments as they follow the 10, but those other commandments are not the commandments of God.
Have I restated what you were saying correctly?
If so, I see it differently. There are many instructions that God spoke in different ways.
I don't why commandments that were not written by God's finger are somehow not God's commandments.
Jesus spoke some commandments to dead people, like "Lazarus, come forth". Are those commandments of a higher order because they were spoken to dead people? Myself, I don't think so.
Great thread, by the way
Clare73 said:"HATH GOD SAID?" (Ge 3:1)
I won't be equivocating with you on the meaning of "unbelief."
No, their rebellion was due to their unbelief.Right their unbelief was due to their rebellion,
Right, the inner disposition of not trusting God existed first, and was revealed/shown by their rebellion.Their rebellion was in the form of sin. Their sinning showed they did not trust God.
No, they were in a state of unbelief through their unbelief.Therefore they were in a state of unbelief through their disobedience. Because they refused to commit themselves to our Lord and Savior.
With that being grievously misrepresented, being pure cockamania contrary to the self-evident, whatever follows will necessarily be absurd, will not be rational, and will not be addressed.So with that being understood
No. I don't think any of the commandments given through Moses apply to us today. Though, yes, there may be some overlap between instructions written on our hearts and the law of Moses.Well, it definitely includes God's Ten. Do you agree with that?
First of all the 10 was given by God, not Moses. They were written by His hand and spoken by His voice. We are told they are foreverNo. I don't think any of the commandments given through Moses apply to us today. Though, yes, there may be some overlap between instructions written on our hearts and the law of Moses.
(To anticipate a possible question, yes, The ten commandments were given through moses. God wrote them with his finger, but Moses brought them down the mountain. They were delivered by, or given through, moses.)
So, that passage in Revelation refers to things like bear one another's burdens.
Interestingly, Paul actually quotes one of God's commandments given through Moses about not muzzling an ox. He says it now applies to pastors receiving a salary. We can see that the law, including the 10, is very valuable for imparting wisdom!
We can also see that Paul is using the concept or "spirit" of the law rather than the actual letters.
They did a terrible jobThe NIV
The NIV is an excellent transliteration.The NIV
Hi again,First of all the 10 was given by God, not Moses. They were written by His hand and spoken by His voice. We are told they are forever
Psalms 111: 7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
So you do not think the Ten apply today? Are you free to lie, covet, steal, worship gods, murder etc.?
The passage in Revelations means exactly as it reads. That's why there is only a remnant who still keep God's commandment because it has been eroded over the generations. His commandments stand sure and are forever. You might want to get this one right, because there is a lot at stake when we think God's laws no longer apply according to many scriptures in the Bible. God bless
They did a terrible job
I agree, the NIV is a fine translation.And your authority to make this statement is..? It is the most popular translation in the world. The NIV translation committee did a miraculous job of bringing the Bible in all its glory into comprehensible English.
And they got it right.I agree, the NIV is a fine translation.
I haven't checked this out recently, but in the early days they stated that they weren't attempting to make a word-for-word translation, but that they were going to
translate the meaning as best they could.
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