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Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

Neogaia777

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You cannot take pieces and parts of the law, and say some are moral laws while others are not, etc, cause I find absolutely none of that distinguishing being done anywhere in scripture, but when they talked about the "law" they were talking about all of it, or else, none of it, etc...

Those distinctions, and calling some that, and not others that, etc, were all done/made up by men/man, and are absolutely nowhere in scripture, etc...

The letter of a, or any law is no longer binding, not even NT commands, that are viewed as "commands", etc, cause that was, or always is, the trap of any kind of written down rule or letter of any commandment, or written down rule or law, etc, but and/or because, if these things are not already known (written down) already in the heart, etc, then those laws will never ever be fully ever followed or done fully by anyone else otherwise, etc, cause they already have a wicked heart, etc...

But if you can show me anywhere in scripture where is divides the ten commandments, or any other commandments, as some being the "moral law", while others are not, but are called by "some other thing", etc, then please, feel free to show me, etc...? But I can already tell you, your not going to find it, etc...

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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You cannot take pieces and parts of the law, and say some are moral laws while others are not,

In Heb 7 Paul says the Law regarding the priesthood was changed - that does not mean the Law to not take God's name in vain changed.

In Heb 10:4-11 Paul says that the laws for animal sacrifice were "taken away" - that does not mean the Law to not take God's name in vain was taken away.

In 1 Cor 7:19 Paul says the law regarding circumcision "is nothing" but "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" showing a distinction.

I think you will agree with me that scholars in almost all Christian denominations today admit to this point.

We probably both agree that the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 speaking of "God's Law written on the heart" did not include all gentiles of the OT claiming that they were priests, or claiming that they should move to Israel etc.

Even in the case of the Lev 23 annual feast days only 3 were mandatory even for Jews.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The Sabbath is part of the everlasting covenant. God never separated His Sabbath from the other 9 commandments, that came from man, not God.

God specifically said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant. Exodus 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

It's also how He identifies His people Ezekiel 20:20, Exodus 31:12-17

God never ended His 10 commandments at the cross, it was blood sacrifices and feasts, not His eternal moral covenant that is written in our hearts and minds.
 
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At this point in time, the Jews did not even know that the Gentiles would be included in God's plan of salvation let alone on what laws they would have to keep. Nobody was given the new instructions from the apostle Paul yet, either (For Paul was not even an apostle yet). These Jewish women had no clue of the future council in Acts 15 that said that Gentile Christians were not obligated to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses. So they were acting out only what they knew from the Old Law (without having any knowledge of God's new change in His program yet). Again, just because somebody keeps the Laws or commands in the OT does not equate that God was commanding them to do that. For example: The Jews pointed out to Jesus that the woman caught in the act of adultery should have been stoned according to the Law. But that did not happen because Jesus brought in a new way of doing things. So just because the Jews correctly pointed to the Law did not mean that Jesus was for them doing that thing out of the Law.
 
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Neogaia777

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And people were killed for things like murder, and adultery, under the OC, etc, but not to just single only those ones out as being deserving of death under the OC, etc, but, anyway, and Jesus told us what was considered as being truly breaking at least these two commandments also, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).​

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).​

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).​


In conclusion:

Speaking generally of the two major covenants (The Old Testament, & The New Testament): You sort of have to look at the Old Covenant (Old Testament) as one contract, and the New Covenant (New Testament) as another contract. It's kind of like a contract when you buy a house. If you did not like certain things in the contract, you could ask them to make some changes in the contract. If they agreed to the changes, you would then go by the new contract, and the old contract for the house would be discarded. There may be some similar things between the old contract, and the new contract, but you stick with the new contract in your dealing with buying the house. Meaning: This is why we seek to follow the New Covenant (New Testament) primarily even though there are certain laws that have carried over from the Old Covenant (Old Testament). We are clearly not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.
 
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Neogaia777

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OK, I will just ask you this...?

Do you think that all, according to God and His righteous standard, do you think any of us have ever fully lived up to it fully, etc...?

Yes or No...?

And then, if not, do you think that either did, or else did not, make us all "deserving of death" initially in God's eyes, etc...?

And again, Yes or No, etc...?

And then, if Yes, then what do you think is the "true solution" to that little problem, etc...?

Is is going back to the Law, etc...?

Yes or No, etc...?

God Bless!
 
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Clare73

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Those are not new. God has always wanted us to love each other.

They are ‘re-freshed’. In other words, Jesus was emphasizing them - under the new revelation of Him -
giving them a deeper understanding.
I'm going with what Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you. . ." "You have heard it said,. . .but I tell you. . ."

Actually, they are new, they are new legislation, subject to penalty. . .
"subject to judgment," "in danger of hell fire,"
"you may be thrown into prison and you will not get out until you have paid the last penny,"
"gouge it out, cut it off, rather than your whole body go to hell,"
"in the way you judge other, you will be judged,"
 
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SabbathBlessings

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God gave the instruction with the second covenant writing His laws Exodus 20:8-11 in our hearts and minds. If the Sabbath was abolished, this would be the time to clarify. That did not happen because God already told us His Sabbath is forever.

Jesus said Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Paul clarified pretty clearly when when talking about the ceremonial laws established for the Jews what really mattered: 1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Paul never contradicted himself, Jesus never contradicted Himself and God did not either when He said He changes not. You are welcome to believe as you wish but God told us His covenant is 10 and that is pure and endures forever. I believe Him.

I'm out of time for now. God bless
 
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Bible Highlighter

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To all:

Two major wrong extreme positions exist today. Some want to go back to be justified by the Law of Moses in some way (of which we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses according to Acts of the Apostles 13:39), and others want to turn God's grace into a license for immorality (See: Jude 1:4). For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world. We follow Jesus and His apostles and not Moses. We follow Jesus and His apostles and not sin which is of the devil.
 
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Well, I am not going to keep going back and forth with you on this topic. Not because I don't know how to defend the faith but because it would be a violation in me doing so according to Titus 3:9.

Good day to you in the Lord.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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God gave the commandments not Moses. God wrote and spoke them, they are the only scripture in the entire Bible written by the hand of God. I find God's covenant to be very sacred.

Exodus 34:28 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. (not 9)

The Ten Commandments was transferred over when God said He writes His laws (Exodus 20) in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 10:16 His commdmants are built on love and we obey out of love not because they are burdensome.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

God bless
 
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As I said. Good day to you in the Lord.
 
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Neogaia777

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Neither of which extreme is at all any good brother, and after that scathing rebuke of the law, etc, I just would like to add, or would just like to say that if even God's NT commands are not already known and are not already fully confirmed/agreed to in and by the or that specific heart, etc, then none will ever really truly obey them at all ever, etc...

Not ever truly anyway, etc, cause like I said, they just already have a wicked heart, etc...

And don't even realize that "that" is their problem, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Clare73

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The entire discussion of Christ's High Priestly ministry in Heb 4,7,8,9,10
Heb 4:1-13, the subject of my posts, is not about Christ, the High Priest, as are not my posts, to wit:

Hebrews is addressed to NT Hebrews who, because of persecution by the Jews and disinheritance by their families,
were considering a return to Judaism. It contains five spiritual warnings about the drastic spiritual consequences
of such a decision, of which the third, Heb 6:4-6, is the most dreadful, and of which Heb 4:1-13 is the second,
reminding them of the consequences of 40 years wandering in the dessert for their refusal to enter Canaan, the land of the promised rest
(Dt 12:9-10, 25:19; Josh 1:13, 11:23, 21:44, 22:4, 23:1), and warning them not to fail to enter into God's rest again.

Heb 4 is about the (spiritual) salvation rest of the NT (4:1-3, 6-7, 9-10), which is God's own rest (4:10)
in which they are invited to share (4:11), prefigured, foreshadowed in Canaan, the OT (physical) rest after 40 years
of wandering in the wilderness, promised by God but only partially and temporarily fulfilled in Canaan (Heb 4:8),
because God spoke of another day, "Today" in Ps 95:7-8 (4:7) of Sabbath-rest for the people of God (4:9), in the NT (4:11).

What is the nature of this rest of "another day, Today" for the people of God spoken of in Ps 95:7-8,
and what is it a rest from, to which Heb 4:1-13 is referring?

The nature of the rest is spiritual, it is rest in Christ.
It is rest from our own work to save, and rest in Christ's work which saved us.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, set apart (sanctified) and given for rest (Ex 23:3; Dt 5:14),
which is why we find the NT Christians assembling on the day of Christ's resurrection, the Lord's Day (Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; Rev 1:10).

--from Post #288.
 
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Nathan@work

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I actually have never said a person could find God outside His Word. However, if you believe the Bible to be "The" Word of God, then I would have to share that Jesus is The Word of God. The Bible is a book, a collection of books, that contain words that God spoke along with some from other people.

No man actually seeks after God, God seeks after man.

I love to read the Bible, study it, and would recommend it to all.

The point I am trying to make is that God has given us His Spirit. He is alive in us. So many people reject His leading in favor of what they think about something they read in the Bible.

This is blatantly obvious through the fact that there are so many people, groups of people, who all read the same Bible, and yet they cannot all agree. Why is that? Is the same Spirit of God leading them all in different doctrines? No, He does not do that.

You know the truth. The truth is in you. Follow the Spirit - He will perfect you.
 
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Nathan@work

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Well, you are reading a 'translation' of what Jesus said.

The word you read as "new" literally, specifically, means 'refreshed'. Not as in never having been known before. It means this is something you have known - but I am going to clarify it for you.

The penalties of sin are not new either. Again, Jesus was just giving detail - clarification - of things that had already been heard before.

It still happens today, and I dare say it even happens to you. How many times have you read the Bible? Do you ever learn something new? See something that you had not seen before?
 
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Clare73

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What about:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
so that the man of God be complete (thoroughly equipped) for every good work." (2Tim 3:16-17)
 
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Noxot

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the laws must be removed like one removes a log or speck from ones eye. then one can behold the eternal law clearly - the divine Logos in all glory he has with his Father, before Abraham was and before the foundations of the world. there we live and dwell in the age of ages with the ancient of days and he tells us "you were with me from the beginning" as he uttered to his disciples in the gospel of john.
 
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