Remember when it was a 'conspiracy theory'?

stevil · May 28, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
OTH the absolute refusal to let investigators come in and obtain answers......well that speaks to a whole 'nother level of cover-up.......one that does not make China look very innocent.

I wonder, if an outbreak originated in USA, would USA authorities be keen on letting Chinese or Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance to their research facilities?

If USA had a nuclear weapons manufacturing mishap, would they let Chinese, Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance?

PreppedNsaved · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
I wonder, if an outbreak originated in USA, would USA authorities be keen on letting Chinese or Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance to their research facilities?

If USA had a nuclear weapons manufacturing mishap, would they let Chinese, Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance?

If we were supposedly allies, and our mishap affected people in those other countries to the point of killing at least half a million of them, then why not? It called working together.

stevil · May 28, 2021

PreppedNsaved said:
If we were supposedly allies, and our mishap affected people in those other countries to the point of killing at least half a million of them, then why not? It called working together.

But USA is not allies of China, Russia or most Arab nations

PreppedNsaved · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
But USA is not allies of China, Russia or most Arab nations

And yet we buy China's merchandise. We're even adopting their system of government. If we're not their ally, then we're at least their admirer.

civilwarbuff · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
Nothing has changed.
Trump was making strong claims without any evidence which is what people have problems with.

Noone was categorically saying that the virus DIDN'T come from a lab,
Just that there was no actual evidence supporting Trump's bold statement.

Bold claims without any supporting evidence is a conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy theory can change into facts if subsequent evidence comes to light.
As yet, no supporting evidence has come in with regards to this lab claim.

.......and your 'evidence' to back up your claim is?.........

civilwarbuff · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
I wonder, if an outbreak originated in USA, would USA authorities be keen on letting Chinese or Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance to their research facilities?

If USA had a nuclear weapons manufacturing mishap, would they let Chinese, Russian or Arab investigators in with high clearance?

But none of those things have happened, have they?......so your statement is sheer speculation isn't it?.......'nuff said......

whatbogsends · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
Nothing has changed.
Trump was making strong claims without any evidence which is what people have problems with.

Noone was categorically saying that the virus DIDN'T come from a lab,
Just that there was no actual evidence supporting Trump's bold statement.

Bold claims without any supporting evidence is a conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy theory can change into facts if subsequent evidence comes to light.
As yet, no supporting evidence has come in with regards to this lab claim.

And nothing has come to light supporting the "it came naturally from the wet market" theory, either. Why condemn the lab theory as "conspiracy theory" and those who boldly claimed without supporting evidence that it couldn't have come from a lab. At the onset of the pandemic, the scientists commissioned by the WHO declared a definitive answer without knowing the facts, yet you still support them, and condemn the competing theories as conspiracy.

We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin.

Statement in support of the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China combatting COVID-19 - The Lancet

Even suggesting COVID-19 doesn't have a natural origin was declared "conspiracy theory" at a time when they could not be known. Surely, such strong language without evidence should be condemned, right?

We declare no competing interests.

This was in April, 2020. Strong language without full knowledge of the facts. One of it's primary authors, Peter Daszak, had a significant conflict of interest that he failed to disclose.

‘Peter Daszak has conflicts of interest that unequivocally disqualify him from being part of an investigation of the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic,’ said Richard Ebright, bio-security expert and professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University in New Jersey.

‘He was the contractor responsible for funding of high-risk research on Sars-related bat coronaviruses at Wuhan Institute of Virology and a collaborator on this research.’

How can Peter Daszak be part of WHO's team investigating the original source of the outbreak? | Daily Mail Online

(It was also reported in the Washington Post on 3/22/2021, but that article is behind a paywall)

It was pointed out in another thread that the NIH's PREDICT program was involved in Gain of Function research.

Fauci is hiding past work on 'super-viruses that jump from animals to humans,' Rand Paul claims | Page 3 | Christian Forums

"All of the evidence points to this not being a laboratory accident," says Jonna Mazet, a professor of epidemiology at the University of California, Davis and director of a global project to watch for emerging viruses called PREDICT.

Researchers Cast Doubt On Theory Of Coronavirus Lab Accident : Goats and Soda : NPR

Just like the Lancet paper drafted by the WHO, they ruled out lab accident without a full assessment of the facts.

Your application of condemnation of "conspiracy theory" seems not to be rooted in principle, as you seem to apply the label selectively.

rturner76 · May 28, 2021

whatbogsends said:
No, the lab theory hasn't been verified, but what is entirely clear is that the WHO investigation which concluded in Feb 2020 that it was "conspiracy theory" to even speculate about a lab accident origin, was a biased and untrustworthy attempt to stifle any actual investigation.

You just admitted it hadn't been verified. Wouldn't it be irresponsible to draw a conclusion without verification? Would you have believed an unverified report? When looking for concrete answers, speculation would not be taken seriously.

PreppedNsaved · May 28, 2021

rturner76 said:
You just admitted it hadn't been verified. Wouldn't it be irresponsible to draw a conclusion without verification? Would you have believed an unverified report? When looking for concrete answers, speculation would not be taken seriously.

He was making the point that it was labeled as a conspiracy theory and therefore dismissed even without it being investigated first. That's not a very scientific way of doing things.

rturner76 · May 28, 2021

PreppedNsaved said:
He was making the point that it was labeled as a conspiracy theory and therefore dismissed even without it being investigated first. That's not a very scientific way of doing things.

Actually it was investigated as far as they were able to and there was no evidence found. Spouting theories with no evidence is not acientific.

stevil · May 28, 2021

whatbogsends said:
And nothing has come to light supporting the "it came naturally from the wet market" theory, either.

I have not heard of anyone categorically claiming that the pandemic originated from the wet market.
I have heard that it is a possibility that it came from the Wuhan wet market, I have also heard that there is a possibility that it came from a lab in Wuhan.
I am open to both possibilities and any other possibilities out there.

What I am allergic to, is people strongly claiming to know its origin.

whatbogsends said:
Your application of condemnation of "conspiracy theory" seems not to be rooted in principle, as you seem to apply the label selectively.

No, not at all.

Blaming the Chinese, Blaming WIV, blaming the WHO, blaming NIH, blaming Faucci is all very different from saying that the origins are unknown and should be investigated.

There are conspiracy theories out there and much propaganda being created and passed around trying to blame specific targets.

I'm saying, that before making public accusations, people should investigate and get facts.

stevil · May 28, 2021

PreppedNsaved said:
We're even adopting their system of government.

???

PreppedNsaved · May 28, 2021

stevil said:
There are conspiracy theories out there and much propaganda being created and passed around trying to blame specific targets.

I'm saying, that before making public accusations, people should investigate and get facts.

How can anyone conduct a successful investigation if they're marginalized as a conspiracy theorist for even asking the questions?

stevil · May 28, 2021

PreppedNsaved said:
How can anyone conduct a successful investigation if they're marginalized as a conspiracy theorist for even asking the questions?

Well, I think the majority of people are for investigating where the Coronavirus came from, for investigating if it came from the Wuhan lab.

But with regards to the 2020 election, it doesn't really make sense to be investigating for bamboo in the ballot sheets.

All but the Republican Senators are for investigating the 6 Jan insurrection attempt.

mindlight · May 29, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

The only actual evidence for this conspiracy theory of there being a lab origin to this virus is that there is a virology lab in Wuhan. Not much to go on really.

whatbogsends · May 29, 2021

mindlight said:
The only actual evidence for this conspiracy theory of there being a lab origin to this virus is that there is a virology lab in Wuhan. Not much to go on really.

And Covid-19 matched 96% to a virus being stored and studied at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

And 3 researchers working at the WIV went to the hospital in November 2019 with "Covid-like symptoms".

And there was a 2018 report of the WIV that there safety measures were inadaquate.

July 4 (2020): The Times of London reports that a virus 96 percent identical to the coronavirus that causes covid-19 was found in an abandoned copper mine in China in 2012. The bat-infested copper mine in southwestern China was home to a coronavirus that left six men sick with pneumonia, with three eventually dying, after they had been tasked with shoveling bat guano out of the mine. This virus was collected in 2013 and then stored and studied at WIV.

March 22(2021): The Australian newspaper reports: “Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers working on coronaviruses were hospitalized with symptoms consistent with covid-19 in early November 2019 in what U.S. officials suspect could have been the first cluster.”

Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible

vs.

Absolutely no supporting evidence of the wet market theory. They have not found any trace of the alleged host animal at any wet market in Wuhan or otherwise.

Of course, this was posted earlier in this thread, but let's go with "The only actual evidence for this conspiracy theory of there being a lab origin to this virus is that there is a virology lab in Wuhan. Not much to go on really"

whatbogsends · May 29, 2021

stevil said:
Well, I think the majority of people are for investigating where the Coronavirus came from, for investigating if it came from the Wuhan lab.

NOW, they are for investigating the origin of Covid. In early 2020, the WHO "completed" their investigation and called anything other than natural origin "conspiracy theory".

PreppedNsaved · May 29, 2021

stevil said:
All but the Republican Senators are for investigating the 6 Jan insurrection attempt.

If by "all", you mean the Democrats in power, then this just proves that it's a partisan issue with partisan interests.

CatsRule2020 · May 29, 2021

I am sure many in the pre-Trump counter intelligence business knew that this weapon was designed not to create the maximum body count, but to cripple an adversaries' economy.

Think what would have happened if those with true knowledge about this kind of work had voiced their knowledge. Perhaps none of us would be around to post if Trump had chose to retaliate likewise and the situation escalated.

LockeeDeck · May 29, 2021

PreppedNsaved said:
If by "all", you mean the Democrats in power, then this just proves that it's a partisan issue with partisan interests.

Find and replace, Democrats with Republicans and make it about looking for watermarks on ballots that don't exist.

Remember when it was a 'conspiracy theory'?

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