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Remember when it was a 'conspiracy theory'?

hedrick

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A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?
This is sort of bait and switch. The current concern is that it might be a natural virus that people caught in the lab. The articles you quote about conspiracy theory are talking about claims it was engineered.

It may be impossible to know whether it came from the lab. If they were studying something that came from bats and has been around since 2012, it could have been in both the market and the lab, in which case it's probably impossible to know where the epidemic came from. The story about three lab staff is worth investigating, but it only says they had similar symptoms to Covid. But since Covid has symptoms that look like Flu and lots of other things, it's hard to know what that means.

The Chinese are not likely to allow access to the records needed or an investigation. Maybe that means they're guilty. Maybe it means they're a closed, paranoid group.
 
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civilwarbuff

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This is sort of bait and switch. The current concern is that it might be a natural virus that people caught in the lab. The articles you quote about conspiracy theory are talking about claims it was engineered.
If it was just an accidental release of a virus they were studying, while they are still responsible for that, it is at least explainable. OTH the absolute refusal to let investigators come in and obtain answers......well that speaks to a whole 'nother level of cover-up.......one that does not make China look very innocent.
The Chinese are not likely to allow access to the records needed or an investigation. Maybe that means they're guilty. Maybe it means they're a closed, paranoid group.
Yep, they're a closed paranoid group cuz they got something to hide.....the 2 tend to go hand-in-hand........
 
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hedrick

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Yep, they're a closed paranoid group cuz they got something to hide.....the 2 tend to go hand-in-hand........
It becomes a habit. If you've got a lot to hide you may be closed even when you're innocent. But certainly we have a right to presume they're not.
 
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LockeeDeck

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A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

I had someone tell me back in summer 2020 that China created the virus on purpose to tank the global economy. No reasoning of why China would do that as they are tied to that same global economy or why they would release a virus on their own soil. That theory is as dumb now as it was then, nothing has changed in that regard.

A lab leak is theoretically possible but there isn't any proof except some vague reports of some lab people getting sick with something. China isn't helping matters with their insistence that the pandemic didn't start there and that it really started in the US. China IS trying to hide the origins of the virus, mostly because it's embarrassing.

Ultimately none of this validates the crazed ramblings of the conspiracy nuts.
 
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whatbogsends

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This is sort of bait and switch. The current concern is that it might be a natural virus that people caught in the lab. The articles you quote about conspiracy theory are talking about claims it was engineered.

It may be impossible to know whether it came from the lab. If they were studying something that came from bats and has been around since 2012, it could have been in both the market and the lab, in which case it's probably impossible to know where the epidemic came from. The story about three lab staff is worth investigating, but it only says they had similar symptoms to Covid. But since Covid has symptoms that look like Flu and lots of other things, it's hard to know what that means.

The Chinese are not likely to allow access to the records needed or an investigation. Maybe that means they're guilty. Maybe it means they're a closed, paranoid group.

The bait and switch are those who had defended the "It came from the wet market and any claims of lab accident are conspiracy theory" and still trying to say "even if it came from the lab, it definitely happened naturally" (which again, is bare assertion, and not, by any means, established fact).

The Lancet report by WHO scientists called any hint of "lab accident" conspiracy theory, not just claims it was engineered.

Gain of function research with bat coronaviruses was happening in Wuhan labs prior to the onset of the pandemic. That doesn't indicate that Covid was engineered, but it certainly should be investigated, as opposed to the coverup which happened initially.

As far as "Covid has symptoms that look like Flu and lots of other things, it's hard to know what that means", it also has several symptoms that don't look all that much like the flu. If it were fever and nausea, they wouldn't be calling it "Covid-like symptoms". Also, three researchers needing to be hospitalized from the same illness is much more consistent with Covid than the flu. It's not a smoking gun, but i find it hard to believe it's just coincidence.

The WHO has lost credibility, as it released a biased report attempting to stifle actual inquiry as to the actual origin of the virus.

They haven't found any trace of the natural origin other than that it's 96% consistent with bats being kept in the Wuhan lab, which were taken from over 900 miles away.

At this point, pure assessment of the facts would indicate that lab accident is the most likely scenario, with "from bats who were captured and studied" and "from an engineered virus" being the unknowns.
 
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PreppedNsaved

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Honestly, I don't care where it came from, nor about if it was leaked on purpose or not. My concern is how state governments responded to it.

Accidental or intentional usually plays a role in the response when it comes to anything else. If I swing my arm and accidently hit someone, the fact that it was an accident mean the person hit was not targeted and there was no malice involved, and therefore the person hit has no reason to expect to be hit a second time. But if I intentionally punch the person, their reaction will understandably be far more guarded because he realizes he's an intentional target. Therefore, his reaction would be different.
 
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jacks

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I've always been leery of arguments that try to dismiss ideas, by merely applying the label "conspiracy theory."
upload_2021-5-27_18-4-35.png
 
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PreppedNsaved

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I've always been leery of arguments that try to dismiss ideas, by merely applying the label "conspiracy theory."
View attachment 299798

Those arguments often attempt to divert attention away from the idea in order to target the person with the idea, labeling them as a conspiracy theorist, or some other name as a way to try to discredit the person and therefore the idea.
168011538_10159094731078584_6637500422220629584_n.jpg
 
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Pommer

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Reports about the doctor who was sanctioned by the Chinese authorities for bringing the as-yet unnamed contagion to the awareness of the local population (and who later died, (the doctor, not the authorities)), ‘round about December 2019 was always troubling.
 
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LockeeDeck

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I've always been leery of arguments that try to dismiss ideas, by merely applying the label "conspiracy theory."
View attachment 299798

There are ACTUALLY compelling conspiracies.

A good way to evaluate a conspiracy is to look at three things, method, means, and motivation.

Let's compare flat earth theory vs Epstein not killing himself

METHOD

Keeping up that the world is flat would require that every piece of evidence that proves the world is flat be faked and whole branches of science be fraudulent.

Killing Epstein would just require a strong dude with a rope

MEANS

Faking the evidence would require scores of people to plan from just about every discipline as things as far reaching as plane routes to the live stream from the ISS would have to faked constantly.

Bribing the guards to take a break and having the cameras turned off would have been simple enough and then a person would just come in and be done quickly and then leave.

MOTIVATION

Usually a vague notion of "control" is given for motivation. How that actually connects to flat earth is never really explained.

Epstein was involved with trafficking minors for sex and was connected to many famous people including the current president at the time. Many well connected people would have reason to have Epstein taken out.

Most conspiracies that come from the right, including most of the corona virus ones are rightfully considered insane when evaluated this way.
 
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Fantine

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What do the Chinese care about most? Making money. Why would they want to shut down the world markets and kill many millions of people? How does that serve their economic dynasty?
 
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civilwarbuff

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What do the Chinese care about most? Making money. Why would they want to shut down the world markets and kill many millions of people? How does that serve their economic dynasty?
Maybe because of things like this.......it is called self-interest.
House bills targeting China would launch coronavirus 'origins' probe, allow victims' families to sue Beijing
The second bill calls for stripping sovereign immunity from China and any other countries "that have intentionally misled the international community on the outbreak" – thus allowing virus victims' families to seek restitution in court.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Right. We should trust sources other than those of mainstream news. We should all get our information from the "experts" on Facebook, twitter, etc. who have no ulterior motive. THEY are the ones who will give us non-partisan and reliable news.

Right?? :oldthumbsup:

Well don't lose hope....there's always other options outside of your false binary dilemma.

For example, you could always think for yourself. There's a lab studying the virus a couple of blocks away from the wet market where this thing originated. Yes, this lab was warned their protection and safety measures were inadequate. There's at least a possibility that the virus came from the lab....right? You don't have to be Matlock to puzzle your way through that story....

So when your trusted news source that has reliably been repeating your own opinions back to you suddenly tells you that a lab leak origin is a ridiculous conspiracy theory....they must have had a really good reason, right?

What was that reason? China said so? Well I guess that settles it. China always tells the truth about everything and they have ser influence over US based media. Case closed.
 
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Ana the Ist

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What do the Chinese care about most? Making money. Why would they want to shut down the world markets and kill many millions of people? How does that serve their economic dynasty?

Well they do have a problem with an aging male population that has never married and has no children.

Caring for this population would be tough from an economic perspective.

There's other problems too. There's the fact that we aren't solving global climate change so arguably the best way to deal with this is to slow it down by finding a way to eliminate a billion people or so. You can't do that on purpose though...so it would need to look like an accident or something.

Fortunately, even in that scenario there would be indications it was planned. You would definitely want to develop a vaccine first before releasing the virus....and that clearly didn't happen in reality. They just had prior research that let them develop a vaccine in record time

Of course, these are conspiracy theories...but you did ask for speculation.
 
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BigDaddy4

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I had someone tell me back in summer 2020 that China created the virus on purpose to tank the global economy. No reasoning of why China would do that as they are tied to that same global economy or why they would release a virus on their own soil. That theory is as dumb now as it was then, nothing has changed in that regard.

A lab leak is theoretically possible but there isn't any proof except some vague reports of some lab people getting sick with something. China isn't helping matters with their insistence that the pandemic didn't start there and that it really started in the US. China IS trying to hide the origins of the virus, mostly because it's embarrassing.

Ultimately none of this validates the crazed ramblings of the conspiracy nuts.
A close relative of mine early on told me that "Big Pharma" created the virus so they could sell more vaccines/medicines. o_O
 
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rturner76

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I think perhaps when Trump made the statement it hadn't been verified yet. It seems it still isn't actually verified. A good case has been build on circumstantial evidence. Until China, lab workers, or the record says it is true. We can reach a logical conclusion based on the information available but that's not a confirmation.

When a reporter does a story they rely on sources or records. If there was no source in the Chinese lab, the government, or in the records that can confirm the information a news outlet would be irresponsible to run the story.
 
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whatbogsends

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I think perhaps when Trump made the statement it hadn't been verified yet. It seems it still isn't actually verified. A good case has been build on circumstantial evidence. Until China, lab workers, or the record says it is true. We can reach a logical conclusion based on the information available but that's not a confirmation.

When a reporter does a story they rely on sources or records. If there was no source in the Chinese lab, the government, or in the records that can confirm the information a news outlet would be irresponsible to run the story.

No, the lab theory hasn't been verified, but what is entirely clear is that the WHO investigation which concluded in Feb 2020 that it was "conspiracy theory" to even speculate about a lab accident origin, was a biased and untrustworthy attempt to stifle any actual investigation.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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It's still merely a theory. Nearly 600,000 Americans lost their lives so I doubt it matters to them from whence it came. Does its origins change anything? Perhaps America may defund Chinese medical research but what else changes?
Yes, it changes everything.

Liars cannot be trusted in the future. If something is immediately debunked as a "conspiracy theory" - which happens over and over and over again....how can you believe these same people telling you other things are true? You can't.
 
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stevil

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Nothing has changed.
Trump was making strong claims without any evidence which is what people have problems with.

Noone was categorically saying that the virus DIDN'T come from a lab,
Just that there was no actual evidence supporting Trump's bold statement.

Bold claims without any supporting evidence is a conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy theory can change into facts if subsequent evidence comes to light.
As yet, no supporting evidence has come in with regards to this lab claim.
 
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