Religious conversion

stopconversion · Jul 7, 2007

There should not be any religious conversion. Just imagine how boring the world will be if everyone went to church, said Jesus is the only god.

Lets celebrate diversity and stop preaching that ours is the only way to reach God and everyone else goes to hell (charecteristics of christian and islam faith). The basic reason behind the intolerance and religion related violence we are currently seeing around the world.

We should stop giving money to churches who engage in coercieve conversion. This is the only way we can stop the spread of intolerance.

The religion's only purpose is to foster spiritual development. The ultimate spiritual goal is to not see any difference between me and you or any living creature. Or to say see god in everything! And love everyone equally. The whole purpose is lost by compartmentalising that we are christians or muslim or anything else.

nestoj · Jul 7, 2007

stopconversion said:
The ultimate spiritual goal is to not see any difference between me and you or any living creature. Or to say see god in everything! And love everyone equally.

You are reffering to Theosis. Actualy its more like see only good in others, be aware of bad in you and defeat it. Problem is it's little known concept outside Orthodoxy and that muslims and "others" don't give a damn about loving those that are not like them.

nestoj
God helps

notmyown123 · Jul 7, 2007

Jesus is the way... the truth... and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him. If other religions go to heaven without believing in Jesus and the price He paid on the cross... then what did he die for??

nestoj · Jul 7, 2007

notmyown123 said:
Jesus is the way... the truth... and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him. If other religions go to heaven without believing in Jesus and the price He paid on the cross... then what did he die for??

True.

But how does one know whom has the Lord chosen for his and whom He does not? Do all Christians go to Heaven, and do all others go to hell? Who am I to make such a statement? Even the angels do not judge in this. Pass the good word, surely, and if it brings fruit – glory to God, if it doesn’t –all is always in Gods hands. We say – I know where the God is, I don’t know where He isn’t.

He moves in mysterious ways.

nestoj
God helps

Voegelin · Jul 7, 2007

Lets celebrate diversity

Why?

"Diversity" has no moral or aesthetic content. It has no value in itself.

Epiphoskei · Jul 8, 2007

nestoj said:
Do all Christians go to Heaven, and do all others go to hell? Who am I to make such a statement?

You would be one who adheres to the Bible. This is not us making up rules here. "It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." All Christians go to Heaven. Everyone else goes to Hell. God said it, that settles it.

GoodNewsJim · Jul 8, 2007

I think it's tough to convert someone because once someone latches on to some belief, they never want to admit they're wrong. I think it is important to teach Christianity to everyone you can possibly do it to because that's one of your main goals in life: serving Jesus Christ.

I was like the original poster in a book I was writing before God spoke to me. You can check out my website at: www.faithclub.net

nestoj · Jul 8, 2007

Epiphoskei said:
All Christians go to Heaven. Everyone else goes to Hell. God said it, that settles it.

He also said:
"Don’t trust all that bear a cross. "

and:
There will be wolfs in sheep’s clothing.

You obviously haven’t seen some who call themselves Christians that I did.

As I’ve said: "Pass the good word, surely, and if it brings fruit – glory to God, if it doesn’t –all is always in Gods hands."

nestoj
God helps

Epiphoskei · Jul 8, 2007

Ok... but that doesn't change the fact. All christians go to Heaven. Everyone else goes to Hell. This is irrefutable Bible. God certainly says many more things, but that doesn't remove what he said concerning this subject.

Many who call themselves christians are indeed hellbound, but only on the basis of if they really are a christian, or if they are not.

nestoj · Jul 8, 2007

Epiphoskei said:
Ok... but that doesn't change the fact. All christians go to Heaven. Everyone else goes to Hell. This is irrefutable Bible. God certainly says many more things, but that doesn't remove what he said concerning this subject.

Many who call themselves christians are indeed hellbound, but only on the basis of if they really are a christian, or if they are not.

Now we come to the bottom of things. I agree. But, how does one tell who is the “real” Christian and who is not. I’ve seen them speaking of faith and love and attacking children, and I’ve seen them bitter and rough on the looks but dying to save that same children (and it takes lot of time spend together and really difficult situation to see beneath). How do we quickly measure faith and Holly Spirit that is in man? By mans words, knowledge of scripture, way that he dresses… – that doesn’t work.

What if one, with all good intentions, shatters a faith of 100 times better man and Christian, because one thinks that someone cannot be Christian if he is not doing something like one thinks he should? I don’t want to be the one who does that. Wouldn’t that be measuring with me as a unit of measure? Who sees and measures all hearts – we do, or Lord does?

Yes, the Lord said that noone goes to Heaven if not trough Him, but it is to him to say who is that one, not to us.

I still think it’s better like I’ve already said:
Pass the good word, surely, and if it brings fruit – glory to God, if it doesn’t –all is always in Gods hands. We say – I know where the God is, I don’t know where He isn’t.

Alternative is to shout to our brothers “You’re not like me, you must be wrong and going to hell”

P.S
If I misunderstood you, and you are only saying that only some of the Christians go to Heaven, but nevertheless they must be Christians to do so, then we are in absolute agreement and I beg your forgiveness.

nestoj
God helps

Voegelin · Jul 10, 2007

stopconversion said:
Just imagine how boring the world will be if everyone went to church, said Jesus is the only god.
.

Satan, in Dostoevsky's "The Brother's Karamazov", makes a similiar observation:

"Before time was, by some decree which I could never make out, I was predestined 'to deny' and yet I am genuinely good-hearted and not at all inclined to negation. 'No, you must go and deny, without denial there's no criticism and what would a journal be without a column of criticism?' Without criticism it would be nothing but one 'hosannah.' But nothing but hosannah is not enough for life, the hosannah must be tried in the crucible of doubt and so on, in the same style. But I don't meddle in that, I didn't create it, I am not answerable for it. Well, they've chosen their scapegoat, they've made me write the column of criticism and so life was made possible.

We understand that comedy; I, for instance, simply ask for annihilation. No, live, I am told, for there'd be nothing without you. If everything in the universe were sensible, nothing would happen. There would be no events without you, and there must be events. So against the grain I serve to produce events and do what's irrational because I am commanded to.

For all their indisputable intelligence, men take this farce as something serious, and that is their tragedy. They suffer, of course... but then they live, they live a real life, not a fantastic one, for suffering is life. Without suffering what would be the pleasure of it? It would be transformed into an endless church service; it would be holy, but tedious. But what about me? I suffer, but still, I don't live. I am x in an indeterminate equation. I am a sort of phantom in life who has lost all beginning and end, and who has even forgotten his own name . . . I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."

Source: Chapter 9: The Devil. Ivan's Nightmare

GorrionGris · Jul 11, 2007

If everybody went to Church and acknowledged Jesus as their God, then it would be good news as
"every knee shall bow and every tounge should confess..."

yod · Jul 11, 2007

stopconversion said:
There should not be any religious conversion. Just imagine how boring the world will be if everyone went to church, said Jesus is the only god.

Yes...imagine that because someday it will be true

(except it will be in synagogues instead of churches. )

Lets celebrate diversity and stop preaching that ours is the only way to reach God and everyone else goes to hell (charecteristics of christian and islam faith). The basic reason behind the intolerance and religion related violence we are currently seeing around the world.

sin is the cause of violence...nothing else

We should stop giving money to churches who engage in coercieve conversion. This is the only way we can stop the spread of intolerance.

This is the difference between a "believer" and a "disciple". One has not been weaned while the other is growing...

I don't believe anyone is told to be "coercive" but all disciples are commanded to tell the Good News to everyone. What the hearers do with it is their resposibility.

The religion's only purpose is to foster spiritual development.

religion STINKS!

The ultimate spiritual goal is to not see any difference between me and you or any living creature. Or to say see god in everything! And love everyone equally. The whole purpose is lost by compartmentalising that we are christians or muslim or anything else.

Did you know that Yeshua has paid for our sin with His very blood? It was a painful death on a cross..

If there is any other way to please God outside of faith in Yeshua, then God is exceptionally cruel and can not be trusted.

E.C. · Jul 11, 2007

"He who tolerates everything, respects nothing" - Anonymous (or can't remember who said it)

Servant222 · Jul 11, 2007

notmyown123 said:
Jesus is the way... the truth... and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him. If other religions go to heaven without believing in Jesus and the price He paid on the cross... then what did he die for??

Of course, I believe in this passage, but I would be very careful about passing judgement on those who follow a different religion.

As a Christian, I think that anyone that hears the Gospel and rejects it will have a lot to answer to- but I'll let God decide who actually makes it through the narrow gate.

What is not clear in the Biblical passage you quote is what God will do for those who die as infants, or as aborted babies; or for those that are so mentally challenged that they cannot comprehend the Gospel message.

Epiphoskei · Jul 11, 2007

Servant222 said:
Of course, I believe in this passage, but I would be very careful about passing judgement on those who follow a different religion.

As a Christian, I think that anyone that hears the Gospel and rejects it will have a lot to answer to- but I'll let God decide who actually makes it through the narrow gate.

That's wise; always leave the deciding to God.

God decided. He told us. It's us. It's not them. There is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved. They don't make it.

GorrionGris · Jul 12, 2007

yod said:
religion STINKS!

It does not.

[bible]James 1:27[/bible]

asianangel · Jul 12, 2007

Conversion is a SUPERNATURAL WORK of God. I cannot convert someone because I want to. I can certainly try, but ultimately it is God who decides who to convert. Who am I to say who gets saved or not? Now I know it is uncomfortable concept for non-believers but that's the way it goes.

Servant222 · Jul 12, 2007

We have to distinguish between religion, which is a man-made institution, complete with all the problems of any man-made institution, and the Christian faith, which is the pure message of salvation and conduct described by God.

There is a big difference- some unbelievable atrocities have been perpetrated over time immemorial in the name of religion, and often by warring factions who all claim that God is on their side.

slamminsam · Jul 12, 2007

"Ye must be born again"-that sounds like conversion to me!
"Go unto all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature"-that does, too!
Why are we debating this, again?

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