Regarding the Trilemma Argument

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

This is a break-off thread found in the creation and evolution forums in the "Discussion and Debate" section.

My question is this:

How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

1) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving.
2) All-loving means he wants to eliminate evil.
3) Omniscient means he knows all futures and ways to prevent evil.
4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil.
5) Evil exists.

Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

ForJesusChrist · Mar 12, 2014

Well if you live your life through Christ, then evil and sin will be eliminated, and heaven is sin and evil free thats where God lives.

Also part of the reason there is evil is because of Adam and Eve eating from the tree of life which God commanded them not to, so God sort of punished mankind.

Radagast · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
My question is this:

How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

Read this book.

ebia · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
This is a break-off thread found in the creation and evolution forums imcthe "Discussion and Debate" section. My question is this: How can Christians answer the paradox of evil? 1) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving. 2) All-loving means he wants to eliminate evil. 3) Omniscient means he knows all futures and ways to prevent evil. 4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil. 5) Evil exists. Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

God has dealt with evil, on the cross.

Steeno7 · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

God wants a genuine love relationship with us. Love cannot be coerced or forced, it can only be freely given and freely received. That necessitates that we be free to choose. Where there is choice, there is the potential to choose wrongly.

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

Allow me to post the original thread, at the page I come in:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7809231-8/

It details a large part of my argument thus far. In short, I don't find free will and the fall sufficient to answer the problem of evil. I get cursed because my ancient ancestors did something bad... it sounds like a poorly-written fantasy story, not an accurate portrayal of reality.

Sophrosyne · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil.

This here is the problem of the whole argument here. In order to stop evil God has to go against his character of loving and desiring us to love him and not allow choice. The cross is a choice of mankind, it doesn't stop evil but draws a line in the sand telling man to choose Christ or perish (belong to evil). If God was just about stopping evil he could make the race of humans into robots and not allow us to do evil and destroy us immediately when we even think of evil in our minds.
In other words omnipotent doesn't mean he can go against his own nature and be "not God" in order to stop evil. God's nature is to allow the choice between good and evil so we can love God. His choice is to allow love (and with it hate).

Steeno7 · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
Allow me to post the original thread, at the page I come in:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7809231-8/

It details a large part of my argument thus far. In short, I don't find free will and the fall sufficient to answer the problem of evil. I get cursed because my ancient ancestors did something bad... it sounds like a poorly-written fantasy story, not an accurate portrayal of reality.

Whether you are cursed and why is a different topic. The reason there is evil is because free choosing creatures freely choose it.

ChetSinger · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
This is a break-off thread found in the creation and evolution forums in the "Discussion and Debate" section.

My question is this:

How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

1) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving.
2) All-loving means he wants to eliminate evil.
3) Omniscient means he knows all futures and ways to prevent evil.
4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil.
5) Evil exists.

Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

Hello!

I think that if we want to understand the God of the Bible we need to look at the Bible itself.

I think it's common for people to create their own picture of God, apply that picture to the Bible, find themselves unable to reconcile the two, and conclude that the God of the Bible is untenable.

I'd like to suggest this monograph on predestination and free will: The Naked Bible » Predestination and Free Will: A Summary of The Naked Bible Position. Looking at the Bible, does God have foreknowledge of everything? The answer is yes, and he even has foreknowledge of things that don't actually happen. Does God predestinate things? Yes. Does he predestinate everything? No. He sometimes even leaves the details to other freewill beings. It's all supported with scriptural examples. I think you might have an interest in this.

I don't doubt God's love for you. After all, you're here, hearing the gospel.

lesliedellow · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

The problem of evil has been bothering Christians for centuries. Before them, it obviously bothered the author of the book of Job, because he wrote a whole book grappling with the problem.

The only answer can be that God must have overriding concerns. If atheists are allowed to say, "We don't know," when it comes to scientific questions, Christians are allowed to say, "We don't know," when it comes to theological questions.

Hentenza · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
This is a break-off thread found in the creation and evolution forums in the "Discussion and Debate" section.

My question is this:

How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

1) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving.
2) All-loving means he wants to eliminate evil.
3) Omniscient means he knows all futures and ways to prevent evil.
4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil.
5) Evil exists.

Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

What if God does not want to stop evil now since good and evil are necessary for mankind to be able to love? How can you know what good is if you don't know evil?

God loves you but could you love Him back if you only knew good?

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

Steeno7 said:
Whether you are cursed and why is a different topic. The reason there is evil is because free choosing creatures freely choose it.

It's not really a different topic. The world is supposedly broken because of the actions of my distant ancestors. I have to live in a broken and fallen state through no action of my own.

I was going to try to assume free will for the sake of argument, but when I think about the argument in my head it inevitably comes down to it, so- I don't believe in free will. I am a determinist. All actions are just effects of previous causes. I simply ask "why". Why would a fully rational being, when presented between infinite goodness and evil, picks evil? The only thing I can think of is a warped perception of reality. But perception is outside of our control, so we are not at fault.

dhh712 · Mar 12, 2014

lesliedellow said:
The problem of evil has been bothering Christians for centuries. Before them, it obviously bothered the author of the book of Job, because he wrote a whole book grappling with the problem.

The only answer can be that God must have overriding concerns. If atheists are allowed to say, "We don't know," when it comes to scientific questions, Christians are allowed to say, "We don't know," when it comes to theological questions.

That is basically the only answer you'll ever get: we don't know. God can and does use evil to work whatever is His purpose here on earth. We must trust that it will work out to a greater good which we likely can not understand when we do have evil that happens in our lives. Much easier said than done understandably. Yet will we trust the God which we have come to know in our relationship with Him? or will we in our pride insist that this evil should not have happened to us because ultimately it is about us and not Him. It is a matter of trust.

I will say that some people tend to focus too much on the loving attribute of God at the cost of his being a just God. The atheist does have a point when they ask how can an all-loving God allow evil? The believer who just understands God as love and that is it will never have an answer to this (albeit the "well that is just your choice which brings the evil about": the atheist correctly then reads: your God obvious does not have much power in this world), and thus the atheist will be able to correctly point out that the being they believe in does not exist.

Steeno7 · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
It's not really a different topic. The world is supposedly broken because of the actions of my distant ancestors. I have to live in a broken and fallen state through no action of my own.

I was going to try to assume free will for the sake of argument, but when I think about the argument in my head it inevitably comes down to it, so- I don't believe in free will. I am a determinist. All actions are just effects of previous causes. I simply ask "why". Why would a fully rational being, when presented between infinite goodness and evil, picks evil? The only thing I can think of is a warped perception of reality. But perception is outside of our control, so we are not at fault.

Would you prefer to have never been born? It is what it is.

IOW, in your thinking you have no personal responsibility for any of the choices you make. Our prisons are full of those who share that belief...not to mention hell itself.

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

Steeno7 said:
Would you prefer to have never been born? It is what it is.

IOW, in your thinking you have no personal responsibility for any of the choices you make. Our prisons are full of those who share that belief...not to mention hell itself.

It is what it is, except you claim to have an all-loving and just God who can change reality upon a whim. I don't have to born in this place, God can do whatever he wants. So why am I here?

Thank you for pointing out the logical conclusion of determinism.

Hentenza · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
It's not really a different topic. The world is supposedly broken because of the actions of my distant ancestors. I have to live in a broken and fallen state through no action of my own.

You don't sin, Chany?

Steeno7 · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
It is what it is, except you claim to have an all-loving and just God who can change reality upon a whim. I don't have to born in this place, God can do whatever he wants. So why am I here?

Thank you for pointing out the logical conclusion of determinism.

God loves you and wants you to love Him. If God can do anything, how can God make you love Him?

dysert · Mar 12, 2014

Chany said:
This is a break-off thread found in the creation and evolution forums in the "Discussion and Debate" section.

My question is this:

How can Christians answer the paradox of evil?

1) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving.
2) All-loving means he wants to eliminate evil.
3) Omniscient means he knows all futures and ways to prevent evil.
4) Omnipotent means he can do whatever to stop evil.
5) Evil exists.

Why does evil exist in the world if God supposedly loves me?

This question has been around since the Fall. I believe it's beyond our understanding to know (and believe me - I've wrestled with it for many years). This is one of those times when you have no choice but to trust in the character of God despite evidence to the contrary.

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

Hentenza said:
You don't sin, Chany?

Did I sin upon my creation?

Chany · Mar 12, 2014

Steeno7 said:
God loves you and wants you to love Him. If God can do anything, how can God make you love Him?

If love is to will the ultimate good of the other, then God can form my will to will the ultimate good upon God and others. Why hasn't God?

Regarding the Trilemma Argument

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