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Where did we ever say that Sacred Tradition was strictly oral?
I guess he needs to be specific about which St. Peter...Standing up was presumably lying about St. Peter of Alexandria, a third century Pope of Alexandria who was martyred in the persecutions; his siccessor was St. Alexander who in turn was succeeded by St. Athanasius.
Ooooooooooookay.Except that the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory was enunciated by a church council and has very definite characteristics, functions, and much more that's quite specific.
You're saying the Catholic Church no longer teaches about Purgatory?For people to say--as is commonly done these days by those who want to (1) maintain the claim that the church never changes its teachings but, simultaneously, (2) to find a way to cast off this outdated and now unpopular concept--that Purgatory is something or other about getting you ready for heaven is strictly disingenuous.
And you don't do any of that, right Bob?
Except that the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory was enunciated by a church council and has very definite characteristics, functions, and much more that's quite specific.
For people to say--as is commonly done these days by those who want to (1) maintain the claim that the church never changes its teachings but, simultaneously, (2) to find a way to cast off this outdated and now unpopular concept--that Purgatory is something or other about getting you ready for heaven is strictly disingenuous.
On the subject of dietary requirements, the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 expressly states that Christians are solely required to abstain from foods offered to idols and things strangled.
Ellen White apparently didn't.Indeed -- I prefer the "Sola Sciptura" model of testing all doctrine and practice.
No. I didn't say that. However, it is very common in Catholic circles these days to say that Purgatory is something like a brief transitional experience in which the person receives something akin to an orientation session or preparation for admittance to heaven. Sometimes it's said that it removes impurities or etc. but not in the way that the church taught it throughout its prior history (which is to say, punishment like that of hell but just not as long). And it's said by many that we don't really know what it'll be like but it won't be unpleasant. None of that conforms to the church's official and historic teaching about Purgatory.Ooooooooooookay.
You're saying the Catholic Church no longer teaches about Purgatory?
Ellen White apparently didn't.
To say that, just because something is unpopular, the Church should move to change it, is disingenuous. There are lots of unpopular rules in the Church which people don't follow. That just means they turn away from the Church, which only issues Truth. That's where the world (and Protestantism) got it wrong. The Church only proposes how to get to heaven. You have to follow through with it. But it's hard, and many people today don't do hard...like not going to services on Christmas because it would be too hard for the pastor to actually have to work a holy day, or whatever-I think it's more about the people being lazy to really worship the King.Except that the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory was enunciated by a church council and has very definite characteristics, functions, and much more that's quite specific.
For people to say--as is commonly done these days by those who want to (1) maintain the claim that the church never changes its teachings but, simultaneously, (2) to find a way to cast off this outdated and now unpopular concept--that Purgatory is something or other about getting you ready for heaven is strictly disingenuous.
It doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks, man. It's what the Church teaches-that has never changed. We don't know how brief or lengthy the stay is, and most who say one way or the other don't really know.No. I didn't say that. However, it is very common in Catholic circles these days to say that Purgatory is something like a brief transitional experience in which the person receives something akin to an orientation session or preparation for admittance to heaven. Sometimes it's said that it removes impurities or etc. but not in the way that the church taught it throughout its prior history (which is to say, punishment like that of hell but just not as long). And it's said by many that we don't really know what it'll be like but it won't be unpleasant. None of that conforms to the church's official and historic teaching about Purgatory.
OTOH, we hardly ever encounter a Catholic who thinks he's going to go to Purgatory, even though the church's teaching is that virtually everyone who's bound for Heaven will pass through Purgatory first. That shows us why the church itself has turned to downplaying Purgatory. Almost no one believes it anymore, even including those who say they do.
The next time you are in a situation where a Catholic loved one has passed away, notice how many well-wishers say something in this vein: "He's in Purgatory now paying for his sins, but he'll go to be with the Lord in the future, so that's comforting to know."
To say that, just because something is unpopular, the Church should move to change it, is disingenuous.
I find that hard to believe. Where's the table of contents of your Bible come from?Indeed -- I prefer the "Sola Sciptura" model of testing all doctrine and practice.
Not the Catholic Church. It's not a popularity contest, though we do have the most members, both 'real' and not so much.That's amusing. There is nothing at all surprising in the fact that institutions--even churches--adjust their programs, beliefs, membership requirements, and so on in order to attract new members or keep existing ones.
To say that, just because something is unpopular, the Church should move to change it, is disingenuous. There are lots of unpopular rules in the Church which people don't follow.
That was part of my earlier post. The church cannot change Purgatory without jeopardizing that little myth you just cited, but neither can it keep people believing in something like it's doctrine of Purgatory. As a result, it has unofficially junked it by constantly talking about Purgatory in non-traditional and almost benign terms, and that's something that's done from the Pope on down.It doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks, man. It's what the Church teaches-that has never changed.
I find that hard to believe. Where's the table of contents of your Bible come from?
That's amusing. There is nothing at all surprising in the fact that institutions--even churches--adjust their programs, beliefs, membership requirements, and so on in order to attract new members or keep existing ones.
Is it your claim that the Bible refutes the table of contents - or that the table of contents is condemned by the Bible??
I do get that sometimes from people that have not read her books.
She wrote - that she did believe in the Bible as the rule for testing all doctrine.
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"The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be the rule of our faith. It is a leaf from the tree of life, and by eating it, by receiving it into our minds, we shall grow strong to do the will of God. By our Christlike characters we shall show that we believe the word, that we cleave to the Bible as the only guide to heaven. So shall we be living epistles, known and read of all men, bearing a living testimony to the power of true religion. {RH May 4, 1897, par. 9}"
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