Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

patricius79 · Jan 14, 2016

regarding the whole interpretation of "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that gave you suck", here is Dave Armstrong's explanation with an interesting proof from Protestant translations and Philippians 3:7 and Philippians 3:8 where the same word is used:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davear...-renounce-marian-veneration-luke-1127-28.html

Clearly Jesus was affirming that the body of His Mother was blessed, but goes further. The Greek word there means "yea doubtless", "yes truly" (see Philippians 3:8), "what is more".

Fireinfolding · Jan 14, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
In matters of faith and morals, we know what men we can turn to, and not be deceived. The Bible is not self-explanatory, as evidenced by the array of different interpretations you give. It is true that the Bible speaks to each person 'where they are', but that is not THE interpretation of a passage, it's AN interpretation of a passage. I'm sure you know that the literal sense of Scripture is not the only sense of Scripture.

I dont know much except that there is a God who can make known all things.

Trusting in God by Jesus Christ is often confused with trusting in one self

Regardless, I would encourage all believers to continue to wait on Him, He truly is a rewarder of them that seek Him.

No better place than abiding in Him and His words.

I cant do much chit chat I have to open my home to guests and have a mediation to prepare for.

Root of Jesse · Jan 14, 2016

Fireinfolding said:
I dont know much except that there is a God who can make known all things.

Trusting in God by Jesus Christ is often confused with trusting in one self

Regardless, I would encourage all believers to continue to wait on Him, He truly is a rewarder of them that seek Him.

No better place than abiding in Him and His words.

I cant do much chit chat I have to open my home to guests and have a mediation to prepare for.

I think God doesn't just make known all things, it requires us to seek it. Don't wait, go after it. I agree with your last statement-both the written and the spoken.

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 14, 2016

jason_delisle said:
So are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church changed their minds and all these popes and saints had it wrong?

Apparently, there has been a change in the way the revelation comes from the Papacy... Encyclicals, bulls and now Tracts!

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 14, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
The part I bolded...the Bible does not always explain itself. That's why you and I have different understandings of John 6.

You would be surprise at the layers of truth that can be revealed through studies of the Bible and the Bible alone... you feel comfortable hanging your salvation on traditions of man, I don't.... I guess we'll see who's right soon enough.

I do urge you to prayerfully seek for God's truth to be upon you and to stand in your lot.

thecolorsblend · Jan 14, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
You would be surprise at the layers of truth that can be revealed through studies of the Bible and the Bible alone...

Your premise presupposes Catholics don't do studies of Sacred Scripture.

Your premise further presupposes that he or others haven't been on both sides. I, for one, have been on both sides. I therefore believe I have a right to say that the Catholic interpretations of Sacred Scripture are the most thoroughly convincing I've ever seen. They have no real competition that I've ever found. This strikes me as rather logical given that the Church has had 2,000 years to study the scriptures.

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 14, 2016

thecolorsblend said:
Your premise presupposes Catholics don't do studies of Sacred Scripture.

Your premise further presupposes that he or others haven't been on both sides. I, for one, have been on both sides. I therefore believe I have a right to say that the Catholic interpretations of Sacred Scripture are the most thoroughly convincing I've ever seen. They have no real competition that I've ever found. This strikes me as rather logical given that the Church has had 2,000 years to study the scriptures.

There ya go... free will triumphs!

Root of Jesse · Jan 15, 2016

jason_delisle said:
So are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church changed their minds and all these popes and saints had it wrong?

1) "The holy universal Church proclaims that God cannot truly be worshipped save within herself, and asserts that all they who are without her pale shall never be saved."

Pope Gregory the Great 540-604 A.D.
2) "The Church is like the Ark of Noah, outside of which nobody can be saved."

St. Thomas Aquinas 1224-1274 A.D.

3) "That there is one Holy Catholic and apostolic Church we are compelled to believe and to hold, prompted by divine faith, and we do believe this firmly and confess it simply, outside of which there can be no salvation, or remission of sins…."

Pope Boniface VIII 1235-1303 A.D., became Pope in 1294

4) "It is a sin to believe that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church."
Pope Pius IX 1792-1878 A.D., became Pope in 1846, convened the first Vatican Council in 1869, which enunciated the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility.

5) "We believe the Church is necessary for salvation because Christ, who is the sole mediator and exclusive way of salvation, renders Himself present for us in His body which is the Church. We must always remember the unity of the mystical body, without which there can be no salvation, is open to no one outside the Catholic Church."

Pope Paul VI 1897-1978 A.D. became Pope in 1963

6) "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained."

Vatican II 1965

These quotes are all true, in light of how Christ only instituted one Church...

Root of Jesse · Jan 15, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
You would be surprise at the layers of truth that can be revealed through studies of the Bible and the Bible alone... you feel comfortable hanging your salvation on traditions of man, I don't.... I guess we'll see who's right soon enough.

I do urge you to prayerfully seek for God's truth to be upon you and to stand in your lot.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know there are layers of Truth in the Bible. I don't 'hang my salvation' on any one thing, be it Scripture only, or Tradition only.
Your prayer was answered 10 years ago. Thanks.

patricius79 · Jan 15, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
These quotes are all true, in light of how Christ only instituted one Church...

It is true that the Catholic Church is the Sacrament of Salvation. However, those who would become Catholic if they had the psychological freedom and knowledge to do so, can be saved outside the visible confines of the Church. On the other hand, those who are psychologically free and know that the Catholic Church is the one Body of Christ, and yet do not wish to become Catholic, and continue in this way until their death, are in danger of eternal loss.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 15, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
These quotes are all true, in light of how Christ only instituted one Church...

Yet most catholics do not agree with this

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 15, 2016

patricius79 said:
It is true that the Catholic Church is the Sacrament of Salvation. However, those who would become Catholic if they had the psychological freedom and knowledge to do so, can be saved outside the visible confines of the Church. On the other hand, those who are psychologically free and know that the Catholic Church is the one Body of Christ, and yet do not wish to become Catholic, and continue in this way until their death, are in danger of eternal loss.

So the gospel is not enough?

patricius79 · Jan 15, 2016

thecolorsblend said:
Your premise presupposes Catholics don't do studies of Sacred Scripture.

Your premise further presupposes that he or others haven't been on both sides. I, for one, have been on both sides. I therefore believe I have a right to say that the Catholic interpretations of Sacred Scripture are the most thoroughly convincing I've ever seen. They have no real competition that I've ever found. This strikes me as rather logical given that the Church has had 2,000 years to study the scriptures.

I think the Catholic interpretations of the Bible are definitely the most positive and the deepest.

Job8 · Jan 15, 2016

patricius79 said:
I think the Catholic interpretations of the Bible are definitely the most positive and the deepest.

What's positive about Purgatory? Does it not essentially deny the finished work of Christ? Of course since you won't find Purgatory in the Bible, it is a "re-interpretation" of the Gospel.

thecolorsblend · Jan 15, 2016

Job8 said:
What's positive about Purgatory? Does it not essentially deny the finished work of Christ? Of course since you won't find Purgatory in the Bible, it is a "re-interpretation" of the Gospel.

What is "the finished work of Christ" in your opinion?

What is Purgatory in your opinion?

Job8 · Jan 15, 2016

thecolorsblend said:
Your premise presupposes Catholics don't do studies of Sacred Scripture.

Catholics do study the Scriptures, but then set them aside for additional materials. The whole point of Sola Scriptura is "add nothing to Scripture".

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 15, 2016

thecolorsblend said:
What is "the finished work of Christ" in your opinion?

What is Purgatory in your opinion?

I would say that the simple thought of purgatory diminishes the power of the purification of the blood of Jesus. It is simply saying that Jesus' blood is not enough. Therefore you must go through another purification process in purgatory.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 15, 2016

Apparently even the gospel is not enough to be saved if you choose not to be Catholic.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 15, 2016

Here is a question. Mormons also believe they are the one true church. They also believe that the Holy Spirit inspired them with divine truth. How do you know that Mormons are wrong and Roman Catholics are right? What if you are wrong about Mormons?

thecolorsblend · Jan 15, 2016

Job8 said:
Catholics do study the Scriptures, but then set them aside for additional materials.

Catholics, and indeed all traditional Christians, view it in more holistic terms. It isn't a matter of using only Sacred Scripture or only something else. It's a simple recognition that Sacred Scripture doesn't necessarily contain all things necessary to guide one's life.

Job8 said:
The whole point of Sola Scriptura is "add nothing to Scripture".

Oh? Interesting. I've met people who think a given practice should not conflict with Sacred Scripture. So long as it doesn't, it's fine. Others insist the practice must be explicitly authorized by Sacred Scripture. As with so many things concerning Protestantism, there is no consensus here.

jason_delisle said:
I would say that the simple thought of purgatory diminishes the power of the purification of the blood of Jesus. It is simply saying that Jesus' blood is not enough. Therefore you must go through another purification process in purgatory.

Okay, so that's Purgatory as you see it.

What is "the completed work" of Our Lord in your view?

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