Refusing to Recieve Correction - rebellion?

[Nadiine]

I've been noticing the past few years how few people will accept
constructive criticism or correction anymore today.

Is it just me, or are others seeing this too?

It really hit me the past few weeks when watching a reality show about a lady named "Tabitha" who works to fix failing Hair Salons.
In order fix them & raise their clientelle, she has to tell them what they're doing wrong. (by the way, it's the salon that solicits her help, she doesn't solicit them).

While she's at the salon observing the problems, she has to show them what's wrong to correct it ... most of the people blow up at her or completely refuse to accept any criticism or refuse to listen to her.

I'm truly amazed. I think I can see now why people won't repent to God - you can't get them to accept they're in sin or doing wrong in the first place. & I see this even in Christianity.
(granted, not all correction is right or good or accurate)

Just wanted to ask why this is?


(and ask how this might tie in with the Joel Osteen types of preaching where they keep appealing to people's "goodness" and positive messages...
how do they see what's negative by only being praised & told of blessings?)

 

[MrJim]

Receiving correction is an act of submission, and we aren't a very submissive people. Doesn't happen much in church because if a pastor/church "dares" to correct the person can move on to another congregation and consider slander/libel litigation..

 

[BenAdam]

I think it is due to a couple of things:

1) Out and out rebellion
2) Heavy handed authoritarian leadership at work, home, church, etc.

The latter makes people gun shy, the former encourages others to be the same.

 

[Carolyn H]

Rebellion....

Perhaps the correction was not given in love??? You can hurt or heal with your words...know what I mean?

 

[Nadiine]

Rebellion....

Perhaps the correction was not given in love??? You can hurt or heal with your words...know what I mean?

Well... yes but then what does that say for Jesus when He gave rebuke?

He was calling the Pharisees "sons of hell", "vipers" "whitewashed tombs"...
that's more like name calling & attack in our vocabulary today.....

so.... while I understand what you're saying, I don't think Jesus fits that criteria in His rebuke (probably same with Paul to Simon the sorcerer in Acts)

I should probly go look & see the rebukes made thru the NT & see exactly what they say

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Even the most constructive criticism is a slam on our personal ability to do something. No matter how much it's needed or solicited, it hurts to be told "you're not doing this right". It's a huge blow to the ego. Many people's first reaction is to blow up and get angry, mainly because they know it's the truth, but at the same time they need to direct that anger to someone other than themselves.

Most people that I know who have received some type of criticism, whether constructive or not, and have blown up over it, have later on conceded that yes, the advice was sound and correct, and they've improved themselves over it.

Part of what we preach is the law, which is used as a curb, a mirror and a guide. Most people are okay with the curb and the guide, but the mirror part is a little harder for us to take, because it means actively admitting that we are sinners in need of a savior.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Well... yes but then what does that say for Jesus when He gave rebuke?

He was calling the Pharisees "sons of hell", "vipers" "whitewashed tombs"...
that's more like name calling & attack in our vocabulary today.....

so.... while I understand what you're saying, I don't think Jesus fits that criteria in His rebuke (probably same with Paul to Simon the sorcerer in Acts)

I should probly go look & see the rebukes made thru the NT & see exactly what they say

Jesus had a leg up on us, though, when he made those statement. He KNEW what was going on. He knew it needed to stop. And we know that everything Jesus did in his ministry was out of love.

We can't say the same about our own motives.

 

[Nadiine]

Jesus had a leg up on us, though, when he made those statement. He KNEW what was going on. He knew it needed to stop. And we know that everything Jesus did in his ministry was out of love.

We can't say the same about our own motives.

Some can - and then who's judging? People love to shovel out the "don't judge me" line, yet in order for them to "know" someone's motive for rebuke isn't love is to judge their heart.

So either way it poses a problem in receiving rebuke.

I had nonChristians 9 yrs. ago RUDELY tell me I was obnoxious and rude.
Guess what, in hindsight, they were absolutely right and I took that to heart after I heard it enough times and took a leave of absense to evaluate my heart.

Their rude delivery was still correct, and for awhile I rejected it becuz they were 'against Christianity' - but it didn't make them wrong.

My point is that rebuke isn't supposed to be fun or pleasant.
Whether Jesus KNEW things or not doesn't change His attack-style rebuke tho. It was true.

 

[Nadiine]

I'd also add that a few of the most outspoken people I know against using rebuke sure have no problem using it on those THEY deem worthy of rebuke or harsh replies while 'correcting' others for using it when they don't think it should have been used on someone else.

I see a sort of double standard where that's concerned.

 

[Zecryphon]

I've been noticing the past few years how few people will accept
constructive criticism or correction anymore today.

Is it just me, or are others seeing this too?

It really hit me the past few weeks when watching a reality show about a lady named "Tabitha" who works to fix failing Hair Salons.
In order fix them & raise their clientelle, she has to tell them what they're doing wrong. (by the way, it's the salon that solicits her help, she doesn't solicit them).

While she's at the salon observing the problems, she has to show them what's wrong to correct it ... most of the people blow up at her or completely refuse to accept any criticism or refuse to listen to her.

I'm truly amazed. I think I can see now why people won't repent to God - you can't get them to accept they're in sin or doing wrong in the first place. & I see this even in Christianity.
(granted, not all correction is right or good or accurate)

Just wanted to ask why this is?


(and ask how this might tie in with the Joel Osteen types of preaching where they keep appealing to people's "goodness" and positive messages...
how do they see what's negative by only being praised & told of blessings?)

In a word: pride. The same thing happens on Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay. He tells the people who own failing restaurants why they're failing and what these people need to do to fix it. Now granted, Gordon is extremely harsh and it's not cuz he's a jerk. I think it's because he takes what he does as a professional chef seriously and these people who take shortcuts, like using frozen food instead of fresh, or using a microwave for preparing meals, are an insult to everything he holds dear, so of course he's gonna get mad that people are trashing the title of restraunteur and professional chef. People are convinced that they're right and everyone else is wrong. It's not their fault that their salon or restaurant is failing, it's all those stupid people out there who don't know quality when they see it. But all those stupid people obviously do know quality and that's the reason they're not coming into that establishment anymore, there isn't any quality service or product to be found.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'd also add that a few of the most outspoken people I know against using rebuke sure have no problem using it on those THEY deem worthy of rebuke or harsh replies while 'correcting' others for using it when they don't think it should have been used on someone else.

I see a sort of double standard where that's concerned.

Ain't that the truth. Oh the list of names I'd have of people who do this would be quite long if I could remember them all. But there are a few that really stick out in my mind.

 

[Zecryphon]

Receiving correction is an act of submission, and we aren't a very submissive people. Doesn't happen much in church because if a pastor/church "dares" to correct the person can move on to another congregation and consider slander/libel litigation..

And don't forget the reverse situation. Ever try correcting a pastor? Do that, and I guarantee you'll be looking for a new church regardless of whether you want to or not. You know that song "Me & My Shadow?" Pastor's have a similar version called "Me & My Ego." Sing it with me "Me & My Ego. Strolling down the vestibule."

 

[PreachersWife2004]

And don't forget the reverse situation. Ever try correcting a pastor? Do that, and I guarantee you'll be looking for a new church regardless of whether you want to or not. You know that song "Me & My Shadow?" Pastor's have a similar version called "Me & My Ego." Sing it with me "Me & My Ego. Strolling down the vestibule."

ALL the pastors I know take correction and criticism quite humbly, actually. But I can understand a pastor getting upset when a member publicly humiliates them in a voters' or council meeting. A lot of people mistake that with constructive criticism.

 

[Nadiine]

ALL the pastors I know take correction and criticism quite humbly, actually. But I can understand a pastor getting upset when a member publicly humiliates them in a voters' or council meeting. A lot of people mistake that with constructive criticism.

And let's not forget too that the person who takes it upon themselves to correct the Pastor might be dead wrong - or it's on a subject that has alot of different theories.

I know my current pastor mentioned how he disliked preaching on prophecy/end times stuff when it comes up becuz he always gets people's angry mail on his eschatological view - but any view he would take would bring disagreement with someone else.


Sometimes it's just inevitable that they get undue criticism. Pastoring is one job I'd never want

 

[Nadiine]

In a word: pride. The same thing happens on Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay. He tells the people who own failing restaurants why they're failing and what these people need to do to fix it. Now granted, Gordon is extremely harsh and it's not cuz he's a jerk. I think it's because he takes what he does as a professional chef seriously and these people who take shortcuts, like using frozen food instead of fresh, or using a microwave for preparing meals, are an insult to everything he holds dear, so of course he's gonna get mad that people are trashing the title of restraunteur and professional chef. People are convinced that they're right and everyone else is wrong. It's not their fault that their salon or restaurant is failing, it's all those stupid people out there who don't know quality when they see it. But all those stupid people obviously do know quality and that's the reason they're not coming into that establishment anymore, there isn't any quality service or product to be found.

Oh definitely - I watched that show regularly on the BBC channel (till I couldn't handle watching the reruns for the 100th time)

But ya definitely, they call him needing his help & then they pitch a fit at him for showing them their error.

I was wondering if this was just an American thing, but that's over in the UK - so.... it might be widespread.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

And let's not forget too that the person who takes it upon themselves to correct the Pastor might be dead wrong - or it's on a subject that has alot of different theories.

At my old church, we had a member that would consistently do that, and he told everyone who would listen that he felt called by God to always "question authority".

I know my current pastor mentioned how he disliked preaching on prophecy/end times stuff when it comes up becuz he always gets people's angry mail on his eschatological view - but any view he would take would bring disagreement with someone else.

Hopefully that doesn't cause him to shy away from it!! Hubby is the same way but he still forges ahead and yes, he's gotten some irate emails/phone calls. We've been fortunate, though...no stalkers or vandalism or anything like that. But we think those days are coming.

Sometimes it's just inevitable that they get undue criticism. Pastoring is one job I'd never want

A pastor from the pulpit once said "hey, don't shoot the messenger" and it is so true. I've found that oftentimes when someone is criticizing the pastor because of a doctrine of the church, it's because they're feeling convicted by that doctrine and they don't like it.

 

[Nadiine]

At my old church, we had a member that would consistently do that, and he told everyone who would listen that he felt called by God to always "question authority".

Hopefully that doesn't cause him to shy away from it!! Hubby is the same way but he still forges ahead and yes, he's gotten some irate emails/phone calls. We've been fortunate, though...no stalkers or vandalism or anything like that. But we think those days are coming.

Yes thankfully he doesn't go silent becuz of that stuff. I've often commented to my husband that for a man that says he walks on eggshells on some doctrines due to the angry mail & comments, he sure doesn't sound shy when he gets preaching on it - in fact he hammers it! hehee
I like that.

Oh & his teaching on it actually goes against the rapture - so it was my belief that he was talking against. I didn't care tho, I don't sweat that stuff, we'll all find out one day.

A pastor from the pulpit once said "hey, don't shoot the messenger" and it is so true. I've found that oftentimes when someone is criticizing the pastor because of a doctrine of the church, it's because they're feeling convicted by that doctrine and they don't like it

Alot of times I think that might be the case - depending on the doctrine.
Nobody likes their toes stepped on.
(well, I kinda do... I need to know so I can learn more or be a better person - grow spiritually. The minute we stop learning, we're stagnant in growth).

 

[Zecryphon]

Oh definitely - I watched that show regularly on the BBC channel (till I couldn't handle watching the reruns for the 100th time)

But ya definitely, they call him needing his help & then they pitch a fit at him for showing them their error.

I was wondering if this was just an American thing, but that's over in the UK - so.... it might be widespread.

There's new episodes on Fox now. But one thing I noticed is that Gordon was a lot nicer to the kitchen staffs of the European restaurants. He would actually work with them instead of berating them like they were contestants on Hell's Kitchen. He's merciless on the U.S. kitchen staffs.

 

[Zecryphon]

ALL the pastors I know take correction and criticism quite humbly, actually. But I can understand a pastor getting upset when a member publicly humiliates them in a voters' or council meeting. A lot of people mistake that with constructive criticism.

It's not a rule that all pastors are proud and arrogant. But a lot of them do have the mindset that since they're a pastor and you're not, they're automatically right.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It's not a rule that all pastors are proud and arrogant. But a lot of them do have the mindset that since they're a pastor and you're not, they're automatically right.

Do you find this to be indicative of most LCMS pastors? Cuz I just don't see it in WELS pastors. Of course, we have those few that think they might just actually be God, but they're the exception, not the rule.