"Reformed" Baptists and the Sabbath

[JM]

[If you are a Reformed Baptist]

Do you believe in keeping a Sunday Sabbath?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I don't believe in keeping a Sunday Sabbath.

 

[DeaconDean]

I believe:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" -Col. 2:16 (KJV)

If you believe in keeping Saturday as the sabbath, fine.

If you believe in keeping Sunday as the sabbath, fine.

What if your job requires you to work on the week-ends?

Did not Jesus and Paul both say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's?

What if your Caesar requires you to work on a week-end. Is there something wrong with a week-day sabbath?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I don't believe we have to keep any sabbath at all.

 

[Verve]

What's a "Reformed" Baptist?

 

[JM]

Reformed Baptists (sometimes known as Calvinistic Baptists[1]) are Baptists that hold to a Calvinist soteriology.[2] They can trace their history through the early modern Particular Baptists of England. The first Reformed Baptist church was formed in the 1630s.[1] The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith was written along Reformed Baptist lines.[1]
In 1995, the Trinity Hymnal (Baptist Edition) was published for Reformed Baptist churches in America.[3]

from Wiki

 

[Hupomone10]

[If you are a Reformed Baptist]

Do you believe in keeping a Sunday Sabbath?

1. What do you mean specifically by "keeping a Sabbath?"

2. What specifically do you mean by keeping a "Sunday" Sabbath, if any different from #1.

What do I do to "keep" it? I tried to get k4c to answer this, but we just went in circles avoiding the issue, it's a "preserve the doctrinal comfort box" sort of thing.

I'm not a reformed Baptist by your definition, but since I regard that as a very exclusive mindframe on a Baptist sub-forum, I intend to answer anyway. You're welcome to dismiss my input.

 

[phoenixdem]

As a Christian, all days are holy. All days belong to the Lord. As such I and we as Christians are to keep every day as Holy. The OT Sabbath is from 6PM Friday through 6PM Saturday. I see no where that God changed the ten commandments or the Sabbath. However I do see that Christ Jesus fulfilled the law and we have a new covenant. We do not have to observe walking less than a 1000 paces on Saturday or the seventh day. We are under God's law rather than Mosaic law.

Sunday is the first day of the week and Christians observe Sunday as the Lord's day due to their coming to an empty tomb in early morning on the first day of the week - we serve a risen Lord and this is what it is all about. Forget about any Catholic decree or papal bull - since when are Catholics Christian? They are Catholic

Wednesday is observed as the crucifixion day and we are mindful of His atoning work. We observe Christ Jesus on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. We have a new and better covenant through Jesus our Lord.

Amen.

 

[ChrisManuel]

That's some good preachin brother! I'm in full agreement. I have been debating for a year now with a Hebrew roots believer, at least that's what I call them. Their doctrine has a measure of truth to it but all they do is point fingers at the church and say how wrong it is. I shouldn't say all of them but I went to one of their conferences and I could not believe what I was hearing

freedom project

 

[ChrisManuel]

It wasn't about a passion for the God man. It was about how wise and smart they were. If only the church would begin to honor the Sabbath and become vegetarian. Honor the feast days, learn Hebrew etc.

freedom project

 

[JM]

I asked the question of confessionally Reformed Baptists so I could get an idea of how many Baptists, subscribing to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, denied the confessionally Reformed teaching of the sabbath...that's all. No need to fight.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I asked the question of confessionally Reformed Baptists so I could get an idea of how many Baptists, subscribing to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, denied the confessionally Reformed teaching of the sabbath...that's all. No need to fight.

Yeah, I take exception to that part, as well as a few others. I know, I know....you can't please everyone.

The confession writers were pretty cool though.

 

[Scottish Knight]

I believe:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" -Col. 2:16 (KJV)

If you believe in keeping Saturday as the sabbath, fine.

If you believe in keeping Sunday as the sabbath, fine.

What if your job requires you to work on the week-ends?

Did not Jesus and Paul both say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's?

What if your Caesar requires you to work on a week-end. Is there something wrong with a week-day sabbath?

God Bless

Till all are one.

This would be my view too. I think it's a shame though that modern life makes it difficult for people to rest together. I think we lose a sense of community and doing things together - not only as God's people but also as a nation. For this reason I am in favour of keeping the sabbath on Sunday if possible and I would like the government to support it.

 

[phoenixdem]

The NIV and NASB follow corrupt manuscripts. The Vaticanus of 1488 can not be considered as accepted text or authoritative.


"I must under God denounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord...We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface. When you see the preface to the New American Standard, those are my words...it's wrong, it's terribly wrong; it's frightfully wrong...I'm in trouble;...I can no longer ignore these criticisms I am hearing and I can't refute them. The deletions are absolutely frightening...there are so many. The finest leaders that we have today haven't gone into it [new versions of Wescott and Hort's corrupted Greek text] just as I hadn't gone into it...that's how easily one can be deceived...Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?"
- Frank Logsdon

Frank Logsdon was a major player in the development of the New American Standard Bible (NASB). He was a friend of Dewey Lockman, and was involved in a feasibility study involving purchasing the copyright of the American Standard Version (ASV) with Lockman that lead to the eventual production of the NASB. He interviewed some of the translators for the job, and even wrote the preface to the translation.

Slowly, he became aware that there was something wrong with the NASB. He eventually rejected it, and promoted the KJV.

You may wish to read Dr. Frank Logsdon entire speech.

You may wish to read the below info and go to the link that I cite.

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']The Board of Directors of The Lockman Foundation launched the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE translation work in the late 1950's following the completion of the AMPLIFIED NEW TESTAMENT. Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon was acquainted with Dewey Lockman, president of The Lockman Foundation, prior to Mr. Lockman's death in 1974. Mr. Logsdon was never a member of the Board of Directors, nor was he an employee of The Lockman Foundation. Mr. Logsdon had no authority to hire employees or translators for the Foundation, to set policy, to vote, to hold office, to incur expenses, etc. He cannot be considered "co-founder" of the NASB, nor part of The Lockman Foundation, nor part of the NASB translation team, nor did he write the forward of the NASB. According to our records, he was present at [/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']board meetings[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] on two occasions -- once to hear a travel report; and once to deliver an "inspirational thought."

Mr. Logsdon last wrote to Mr. Lockman in fall of 1973 that he was [/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']moving[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] to Florida. Mr. Lockman replied that he was surprised and saddened by his decision to leave the area. Mr. Lockman passed away in January of 1974, and no further correspondence was exchanged between Frank Logsdon and The [/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Dr. Frank Logsdon and the NASB... according to KJVO's - BaptistBoard.com[/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]

 

[Hupomone10]

I asked the question of confessionally Reformed Baptists so I could get an idea of how many Baptists, subscribing to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, denied the confessionally Reformed teaching of the sabbath...that's all. No need to fight.

Are you choosing to ignore my questions because I'm not a "reformed" Baptist and this is an exclusive thread (an attitude I see fairly frequently among 5-point Calvinists), or did you just miss my post amidst all the arguing?

(post #8)

 

[tzadik]

lol -- oh KJV....

 

[tzadik]

We'll call truce. I certainly do not want to argue to create discord. I was simply pointing out that they met on Saturday afternoon (Hebrew days start in the evening), and that the "breaking bread" as you see in verse 11 means 'having a meal'. Yes Paul preached, but it's not a "base verse" to say that Sunday was now the new meeting day of the believers.
-Shalom

 

[Hupomone10]

We'll call truce. I certainly do not want to argue to create discord. I was simply pointing out that they met on Saturday afternoon (Hebrew days start in the evening), and that the "breaking bread" as you see in verse 11 means 'having a meal'. Yes Paul preached, but it's not a "base verse" to say that Sunday was now the new meeting day of the believers.
-Shalom

Here are some interesting quotes from the early church and early church fathers on the 1st day being the new day of meeting for believers. I didn't know if you were aware of them, so I thought I'd post them:

Clement of Alexandria, a noted church father, head of the Catechetical School of Alexandria, around 194 A.D. said the Jewish Sabbath was “nothing more than a working day.”

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, 3rd bishop of Antioch, student of John the Apostle. In A.D. 110, he wrote: “If, then, those who walk in the ancient practices attain to newness of hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but fashioning their lives after the Lord’s Day on which our life also arose through Him, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher.”

Justin Martyr: somewhere between 100 – 165 A.D., he wrote: “And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place and memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits… Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness in matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.”

Didache of the Apostles (~ 70 – 75 A.D.): “On the Lord’s own day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks.”

This document (didache), which means “The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles”, was rediscovered in 1873. It is dated by most scholars to the first or second century; very early on. "Although in the past many English and American scholars tended to assign it to the late second century, most scholars now place at some point during the mid to late first century." (2005 edition of the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church)

 

[DeaconDean]

"mh oun tiV umaV krinetw en brwsei kai en posei h en merei eorthV h neomhniaV h sabbatwn," -Col. 2:16 Greek NT

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" -Col. 2:16 (KJV)

What we have here, is exactly the same thing going on by most of the Non-Baptists here, that Paul faced in Galatia and Colossae.

Hellenistic Judaistic Christianity.

On the other hand, in the Gentile Christian churches, which arose out of te Hellenistic Christian and Pauline mission, the sabbath commandment was no longer regarded as binding.

Judaizers who came into the Galatian churches from without tried to convince Gentile Christians that only by joining Israel and accpting circumcision and the yoke of bondage could they receive full salvation. The Apostle Paul passionately resisted these efforts and in relation to the Jewish calendar of feasts he argued that if the Galatian Christians pledged themselves to observe it they would be relapsing into the paganism in which they were enslaved to the demonic powers which rule the cosmos, Gal. 4:8-10. to be "upo nomon" (Gal. 4:5) means the same as bondage "upo ta stoiceia tou kosmou" (Gal. 4:3). If, however, Christ is the end of the Law (Rom. 10:4), this implies the end of the Sabbath commandment whose observance was necessary to salvation.

A perticular combination of Gnostic ideas and Jewish legalism is to be found in the teachings of the "philosophers" in Colossae, cf. Col. 2:8. The "stoiceia tou kosmou" to which man is subject by birth and destiny are to be served only in the "qrhskeia twn aggelwn" (col. 2:18) but above all in the scrpulous observance of ascetic dietary regulations, of new moons, and of sabbaths (Col. 2:16). When these days are singled out and their laws carefully kept, the course of nature is followed as determined by the movements of the stars. But this means that the sabbath is subbornate to worship of the content and significance. Face to face with this syncretistic heresy the apostle reminds the Colossian Christians that they were dead with Christ to the elements of the world. It is impossible to desire to keep the laws and demands of these elements, Col. 2:20. With liberation from bodage to the "stoiceia tou kosmou" the "dogmata" are also set aside, so the the Christian community is definately freed from the Sabbath commanment...

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, Editor, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Translator, Erdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Mi., Copyright 1971, Volume VII, "sabbatwn", p. 30

What we have here is the exact same thing as what Paul was facing, ritual observance of the Law for the sake of Judaism.

Believing Pharisees I believe is the term used in Acts 15 of these people.

Gnostics, Judaizers, Hellenistics, Pharisees, that is what is posting in here.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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