references to the trinity in Genesis?

[Redheadedstepchild]

Please forgive what is probably a silly question. I'm re-reading the OT and noticed a couple of passages where God is speaking and uses "us," but he's not talking to humans. Who is he talking to? I'm guessing he is refering to the trinity, but I'm confused.

Here are the 2 examples I noticed:

Genesis 1:26
The God said, Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and them them rule over the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 11:7
"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so that they will not understand each other."

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Yes you are on the right path.

One God.. three persons

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Thank you!

 

[PaladinValer]

Not all that potent.

The Trinity is defined as God is Three distinct Persons eternally and equally of the same One Unique Substance.

In your quoted passages:

1. The number of persons is not defined
2. Their distinctness is not defined
3. Their relationship is not defined
4. Their oneness in the same unique substance is not defined

While Genesis 1 is retroactively preceived to evidence the Trinity (and it does, though it in and of itself is terrible evidence), there are two alternatives, one or both of which are also true.

1. A remnant passage refering to the Hebrew's ancient polytheistic/henotheistic religion
2. It refers to God and His Heavenly Court: the angels.

I

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Please forgive what is probably a silly question. I'm re-reading the OT and noticed a couple of passages where God is speaking and uses "us," but he's not talking to humans. Who is he talking to? I'm guessing he is refering to the trinity, but I'm confused.

Here are the 2 examples I noticed:

Genesis 1:26
The God said, Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and them them rule over the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 11:7
"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so that they will not understand each other."

God made all things by Jesus Christ. Therefore the us was God the Father and the one who became Jesus Christ.

The holy spirit is an expression of the efficacy and power to accomplish their will, much like the power of a leader, or parent, to affect the actions of their subjects, or children, without being present.

Notice that the holy spirit is never addressed as a person by Paul or the other writers of the new testament letters. This is particularly evident in the opening salutations of these letters to the churches

As to Genesis 1:26 God and the one aka Jesus Christ created mankind in their image and likeness: male and female.

Here you have clues to the greatest mystery in all of history.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

God made all things by Jesus Christ. Therefore the us was God the Father and the one who became Jesus Christ.

The holy spirit is an expression of the efficacy and power to accomplish their will, much like the power of a leader, or parent, to affect the actions of their subjects, or children, without being present.

Notice that the holy spirit is never addressed as a person by Paul or the other writers of the new testament letters. This is particularly evident in the opening salutations of these letters to the churches

As to Genesis 1:26 God and the one aka Jesus Christ created mankind in their image and likeness: male and female.

Here you have clues to the greatest mystery in all of history.

OK, I'm with you so far. What's the mystery?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

OK, I'm with you so far. What's the mystery?

The mystery is why (italicized and bolded) God created mankind male and female. If you figger this out I'll buy you a big ole beer.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

trying to take you on a rabbit trail with no truth to it

beware

 

[OldWiseGuy]

trying to take you on a rabbit trail with no truth to it

beware

Soooooo, this mystery has been solved?

Ephesians 5:31-33

31 For this cause (see also verses 21-30) shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This ( verses 21- 31) is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church (not about the mystery of verses 21-31).


33 Nevertheless (even though the meaning of verses 21- 31 is still a mystery) let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.



There is nothing in these verses that implies that this mystery is fully understood, even to this day.

 

[childofGod31]

It seems that God created male and female in order for humankind to reproduce.

Also, since God likes to use pictures to symbolize things (like He symbolized that on the 7th day -it's time for rest, aka - salvation (Hebrews 4).

In case of male and female picture God is showing us the future, specifically, that Church (female) and Christ (male) will be united in the future. "They will become one flesh".
And that Church came from Christ (church was born when Christ died on the cross and his rib was pierced, just like woman came from Adam when he was "asleep" and she was taken out of his rib).

 

[malckiah]

Indeed this is a clear reference to the trinity.....if you look up the word make in the original language, it is to create from nothing....which ofcourse only God can do!....so in saying let us....He has to be referring to Himself in the trinity.

Another cool thing to notice is that God reveals Himself as Trinity in the first sentence of The Bible.....but you can only see it in the original language.......it says God created .....God here is Eloahim....which is plural (three or more)......but the word created is singular in its use.....indicating that it was done by ONE! It is much more complicated than that, i simplified the grammer alot, but thats waht it works out to. So you see that God (3 in 1) created. God's Word is so rich and alive....we could never fully capture the beauty of it! God Bless!

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

It seems that God created male and female in order for humankind to reproduce.

Also, since God likes to use pictures to symbolize things (like He symbolized that on the 7th day -it's time for rest, aka - salvation (Hebrews 4).

In case of male and female picture God is showing us the future, specifically, that Church (female) and Christ (male) will be united in the future. "They will become one flesh".
And that Church came from Christ (church was born when Christ died on the cross and his rib was pierced, just like woman came from Adam when he was "asleep" and she was taken out of his rib).

Ahh, ok. TY for clearing that up.

Indeed this is a clear reference to the trinity.....if you look up the word make in the original language, it is to create from nothing....which ofcourse only God can do!....so in saying let us....He has to be referring to Himself in the trinity.

Another cool thing to notice is that God reveals Himself as Trinity in the first sentence of The Bible.....but you can only see it in the original language.......it says God created .....God here is Eloahim....which is plural (three or more)......but the word created is singular in its use.....indicating that it was done by ONE! It is much more complicated than that, i simplified the grammer alot, but thats waht it works out to. So you see that God (3 in 1) created. God's Word is so rich and alive....we could never fully capture the beauty of it! God Bless!

That is very cool. It helps to have an understanding of the originial language (which I do not have). Thank you!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Soooooo, this mystery has been solved?

Ephesians 5:31-33

31 For this cause (see also verses 21-30) shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This ( verses 21- 31) is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church (not about the mystery of verses 21-31).

33 Nevertheless (even though the meaning of verses 21- 31 is still a mystery) let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

There is nothing in these verses that implies that this mystery is fully understood, even to this day.

So sorry...

what is a mystery ...eph 3:9-10, col 1:26, ro 16:25-26

this mystery is not dealing with man and women but God and the Church! john 17:3,21-22

Church able to act like Christ in godliness...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So sorry...

what is a mystery ...eph 3:9-10, col 1:26, ro 16:25-26

this mystery is not dealing with man and women but God and the Church! john 17:3,21-22

Church able to act like Christ in godliness...

True. Paul states this, that he is addressing the relationship of Christ and the Church, not the greater (other) mystery of man and woman. The NIV uses the term profound mystery. I actually like that term better than 'great'.

 

[poor1sinner]

Is the us plural or the royal we?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

To the OP. The holy spirit came into the church on Pentecost, 31 A.D. Paul began writing after that event. If the holy spirit were the third person in the Godhead Paul certainly would have addressed 'him' as such in his letters. But he didn't. Here are the examples, sans the holy spirit:

Romans 1:7

1 Cor 1:3

2 Cor 1:2

Gal 1:3

Eph 1:2

Phil 1:2

Col 1:2

1 Thess 1:1

2 Thess 1:2

1 Tim 1:2

2 Tim 1:2

Titus 1:4

Philemon 1:3

Neither did Peter, John, James, or Jude acknowledge a person of the holy spirit in their opening salutations or comments.

Perhaps this is why the inspiration of Paul's letters is often questioned.

The power of God to work his will in us is often mentioned, however; a clear allusion to the efficacy, not the personage, of the holy spirit.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Redheadedstepchild,

Please forgive what is probably a silly question. I'm re-reading the OT and noticed a couple of passages where God is speaking and uses "us," but he's not talking to humans. Who is he talking to? I'm guessing he is refering to the trinity, but I'm confused."

David in Psalm 8 alludes to and quotes Genesis 1:26-28 and a careful comparison between the two shows that God was talking to the angels when creating man in the image and likeness of God and the angels.
Genesis 1:26-28 (KJV): "26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Psalm 8:5-8 (KJV): "5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas."
This translation "angels" is confirmed by Paul's citation of Psalm 8 in Hebrews 2. Thus the "us" and "our" includes the angels.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[dcyates]

God made all things by Jesus Christ. Therefore the us was God the Father and the one who became Jesus Christ.

The holy spirit is an expression of the efficacy and power to accomplish their will, much like the power of a leader, or parent, to affect the actions of their subjects, or children, without being present.

Notice that the holy spirit is never addressed as a person by Paul or the other writers of the new testament letters. This is particularly evident in the opening salutations of these letters to the churches

As to Genesis 1:26 God and the one aka Jesus Christ created mankind in their image and likeness: male and female.

Here you have clues to the greatest mystery in all of history.

Naturally the Holy Spirit is never addressed as a person since the concept and word 'person' wasn't developed until the advent of the trinitarian controversies of the 4th-century. Nevertheless, the Spirit should be regarded as the 3rd Person of the trinitarian godhead. There's really no other way to explain such trinitarian texts as 1 Thess 1.4-6; 2 Thess 2.13; 1 Cor 2.4-5, 12; 6.11; 12.4-6 (notice how each redemptive responsibility is carefully ascribed to each member of the trinity, at least somewhat suprisingly with the Holy Spirit listed first, then Christ, and finally God the Father); 2 Cor 1.21-22; 13.14; Gal 3.1-5 (v. 1 picking up on 2.16-21); Rom 8.3-4, 14-17; Col 3.16; Eph 1.17; 2.17-18, 20-22; 4.4-6; Phil 3.3. And these are just the trinitarian texts within Paul's epistles. (For a couple of non-Pauline trinitarian texts, see 1 Pet 1.2; Jude 20-21.)

But see especially 1 Cor 6.19-20. Here Paul informs us that, just as God presided in the original temple, and then his presence left the temple after Israel proved herself unfaithful, now God's presence has returned to his temple--that being us--in the form of the Spirit.