Recovering from False Prophecies

BenTsion · Dec 2, 2003

Shalom all!
About two years ago, I received a false prophecy that I was supposed
to move to another city where I'd start a business with a (then) friend of mine, and it would be a very prosperous language school that would spread throughout the country. Needless to say, I'm still emerged in profound debts and paying the price for having believed in it (that was
before I became a Messianic Jew and the pastor who gave the prophecy was a Baptist pastor). Nowadays, I believe prophecy is for exortation, mostly. Like, when you need to hear something but somehow you've been shutting your ears to the voice of G-d. I don't think G-d will act
through his ministers the same way as fortune-tellers and clairvoyants do, like saying you're going to marry a rich tall brunette or that you're going to make a lot of money... money... coming to think of it, 90% of prophecies we see out there are related to money and prosperity. As if
the gospel of Messiah was some sort of good investment.

Anyway, yesterday my dad (a Methodist) called me. He was feeling miserable, because he, too, received a prophecy (from two pastors) of prosperity and then, all of a sudden, he sees himself in the worst economical crisis of his life. Which brings us to the reason I'm posting.

I'd like you guys to:
1 - Tell me what you think about these fortune-teller-kinda prophecies coming from the mouths of G-d's ministers.
2 - Please provide as much scripture as possible to back it up, esp. Torah if possible.
3 - Share with me if you've ever been a victim of false prophecies and what you did to recover.
4 - give me some advice as to what to say to my dad (he has a masters in theology but I don't think that helps much when it comes to real-world suffering).

Thanks in advance!

In Mashiach,
Ben Tsion

iitb · Dec 2, 2003

Hmmm...where to start...

1 - Tell me what you think about these fortune-teller-kinda prophecies coming from the mouths of G-d's ministers.

Well, they may be from G-d's ministers, but they aren't from G-d.

2 - Please provide as much scripture as possible to back it up, esp. Torah if possible.

The first part of Deuteronomy 13 comes to mind:

[sup]1[/sup] "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,[sup] 2[/sup]and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us go after other gods'--which you have not known--"and let us serve them,' [sup]3[/sup]you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. [sup]4[/sup]You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.

3 - Share with me if you've ever been a victim of false prophecies and what you did to recover.

I'm still unsure if this is a blessing or not, but I really don't trust other people. Even if it is from G-d, chances are I'd ignore it. Being overly-skeptical can be both a blessing and a curse

4 - give me some advice as to what to say to my dad (he has a masters in theology but I don't think that helps much when it comes to real-world suffering).

I'm totally unqualified when it comes to dealing with fathers. Anyone else want to take this one?

Rafael · Dec 3, 2003

2 Peter 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 ¶ And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Jude 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Isaiah 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

2 Chronicles 18:9 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.

Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jeremiah 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. 14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Jeremiah 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. 11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Jeremiah 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Jeremiah 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; 27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. 28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Ezekiel 13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? 8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD. 9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD. 10 ¶ Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

Micah 2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

johnd · Dec 5, 2003

Ben, v'mishpocha,

I have been in kahootz with the Spirit of late and that means I am usually talking out of turn... go fgure...
I have to be honest with G-d.

There is a whole lot of "believers" running around the landscape that are victimized by an adulterated theology / denominationalism / doctology stemming from the two historic satanic infiltrations / infestations which our L-rd (B"H) spoke of in Mattanyahu 13.

The tares sown amongst the wheat were the Sanhedrin producing an apostate Judaism and Roman Catholicism producing an apostate Christianity*.

*Actually the hybrid of paganized Judaism**

**Judaism was always the intent of HaShem to bring salvation to the world.
Jeremiah 31-31-33, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6, Romans 11:16-26, Galatians 6:13-16.

It is no wonder Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, or Benny Hinn spews forth foolishness in the name of truth. We need to get back to true Judaism (which even the Messianic movement needs to do in that it immitates the apostate Jews too much {to identify with being Jewish}).

b'ahev
b'shalom

John

Trish1947 · Dec 6, 2003

johnd said:
Ben, v'mishpocha,

I have been in kahootz with the Spirit of late and that means I am usually talking out of turn... go fgure...
I have to be honest with G-d.

There is a whole lot of "believers" running around the landscape that are victimized by an adulterated theology / denominationalism / doctology stemming from the two historic satanic infiltrations / infestations which our L-rd (B"H) spoke of in Mattanyahu 13.

The tares sown amongst the wheat were the Sanhedrin producing an apostate Judaism and Roman Catholicism producing an apostate Christianity*.

*Actually the hybrid of paganized Judaism**

**Judaism was always the intent of HaShem to bring salvation to the world.
Jeremiah 31-31-33, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6, Romans 11:16-26, Galatians 6:13-16.

It is no wonder Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, or Benny Hinn spews forth foolishness in the name of truth. We need to get back to true Judaism (which even the Messianic movement needs to do in that it immitates the apostate Jews too much {to identify with being Jewish}).

b'ahev
b'shalom

John

The only thing that we Protestants are concerned about, concerning blood lines is JESUS CHRIST, I think you'll find his true Jewishness, and the promise of his ATONEMENT, in your own TORAH..

USAF · Dec 6, 2003

BenTsion

Surely you must ask: was he giving a you a prophecy or was he giving you advice? yes many false prophets will come in the name of G-d. True prophets of G-d will carry with them the gift of a Prophets. It will be written. They will perform only what the Lord instructs them to carry out, and all their glory is given to the Lord. Can a False prophet also make such claims? Of course, its part of deceiving, but you will know a Prophet. No False prophet of Satan can ever match the glory of G-d. Prophets are servants of G-d, mouth pieces of G-d. They carry out what they are commissioned to do by G-d. Let no man proclaim him to be a prophet unless it is revealed to you.

Wit that in mind, Did you try praying for it? asking G-d if its true? He will tell you. You also must ask, what do you see in your heart about that advice? Was the Pastor stating himself to be a prophet giving you prophecy? If (IF) it was of G-d, it will happen, if it wasnt, then yes evil was performed. But its whats in your heart that tells you. Surely you believe if you ask G-d he will answer you correct?

Of course, its for you to decide

Trish1947 · Dec 6, 2003

USAF said:
BenTsion

Surely you must ask: was he giving a you a prophecy or was he giving you advice? yes many false prophets will come in the name of G-d. True prophets of G-d will carry with them the gift of a Prophets. It will be written. They will perform only what the Lord instructs them to carry out, and all their glory is given to the Lord. Can a False prophet also make such claims? Of course, its part of deceiving, but you will know a Prophet. No False prophet of Satan can ever match the glory of G-d. Prophets are servants of G-d, mouth pieces of G-d. They carry out what they are commissioned to do by G-d. Let no man proclaim him to be a prophet unless it is revealed to you.

Wit that in mind, Did you try praying for it? asking G-d if its true? He will tell you. You also must ask, what do you see in your heart about that advice? Was the Pastor stating himself to be a prophet giving you prophecy? If (IF) it was of G-d, it will happen, if it wasnt, then yes evil was performed. But its whats in your heart that tells you. Surely you believe if you ask G-d he will answer you correct?

Of course, its for you to decide

Surely you must ask: was he giving a you a prophecy or was he giving you advice? yes many false prophets will come in the name of G-d. True prophets of G-d will carry with them the gift of a Prophets. It will be written. They will perform only what the Lord instructs them to carry out, and all their glory is given to the Lord

Well all these things that you are saying can be said in every religion, including yours.. But it does't negate the truth of the Gospel that has been revealed by his Holy Spirit.
That Jesus was God's only Son sacrificed for you.. Some day wheather you like it or not, this truth is going to be revealed to every Jew. Then we will all be praising G-d together.. After all we Gentiles are only grafted in, until the fullness of time that it will be revealed to his people. After saying that, I must say that you cant just lump all denominations as false prophets, the churches are full of people that belong to the Lord. And they are sitting in congregations, and some things that are said are false. But, you a free to go to the Lord and ask if these things be true. The Lord said He would be our teacher. I have learned to take anything that I'm told with a grain of salt, until I pray about things first, and research His word. I have learned to "Eat the Hay, and spit out the Sticks!! Thats the only thing that keeps you from error.

Big Mouth Nana · Dec 6, 2003

I am looking forward to that day!!!!! Regenerated Jews....WOW!!!!!! .

BenTsion · Dec 6, 2003

Guys,
Thanks for the kind responses. What bugs me is that this pastor in particular is someone I know has a heart for the LORD, unless he's really really good at deceiving people. There have been many miracles performed in the church he leads, he himself has no less than 15 missions in the arid deserts of the northeast of Brazil, taking food, water, supplies and the Gospel to people who wake up every day not knowing if they'll make it the next day. He was my personal pastor for several years, never failed me as a pastor before. We're not talking about a wolf in sheep's clothes here, THAT'S what's been bothering me.

Trish,
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but from your posts it sounds like you're confused about our faith. You see, we, Messianic Jews, DO BELIEVE AND ACCEPT the Son of G-d, Yeshua HaMashiach (or 'Jesus Christ' as you Christians would call Him). We're not like Orthodox or Reformed Jews who deny him. As far as salvation is concerned, we do not differ from Mainstream Christianity (how could we, we have the same Bible as you guys.)

B'Shem Yeshua,
Ben Tsion

USAF · Dec 6, 2003

Trish1947

I wasnt targeting a congregation. The point I was making is broad.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BenTsion

If you believe G-d sent you were you are, and if G-d has shown that to you, then it will happen. Things work on G-ds time. I see messianic Jews as Christians, if that is also what you are asking

BenTsion · Dec 6, 2003

USAF,
Thing is: the prophecy about me cannot happen anymore. It has already failed. And it
came from someone whom I had no reasons to suspect would ever deliver a false prophecy. I'm talking someone through whom I myself had witnessed G-d performing great miracles. Someone who is humble, never glorifies himself, never heard him speak any heresy - he's one of the most traditional Baptist pastors I've ever met. Plus he had delivered many prophecies to our family that DID come true. That's what baffles me!

As for the comments about Messianic Judaism, they were for Trish, cause she seemed to have thought of us as being Jews who denied Yeshua (HaShem forbid!). However, just a little comment on your sentence: yes, we believe in the same G-d and the same Messiah as Christianity does, but, we're not Christian (that, however, is a long story that deserves a thread of its own).

B'Shem ADONAI,
Ben Tsion

Trish1947 · Dec 6, 2003

Shalom all!
About two years ago, I received a false prophecy that I was supposed
to move to another city where I'd start a business with a (then) friend of mine, and it would be a very prosperous language school that would spread throughout the country

I have to admit that we are being overrun with false prophecies, particulary, in a one on one basis. I had the same thing happen to me in a church concerning myself.. But something inside of me just screamed "NO". I just couldn't accept it. You do not have to accept things told to you that they say is from G-d. We are to test the spirits to see if they are from G-d or not. If it was from God, he would open the doors for you to receive what was promised. Instead you had disaster. Never accept one persons or even 2 persons prophacy concerning your life. The Bible says "let every thing be established by 2 or 3 witnesses. Them telling you to move to another city, with out the conviction of the Holy Spirit of G-d to do so, was wrong. If G-d was in it, you would have seen the workings of the Lord way ahead of your move.. I know they tell you to accept things by faith, But sometimes it becomes "presumption" on there part, and has no anointing to it what-so-ever. These are hard days, and all I can say is abide in the Lord, and let Him be your guide. Who knows? God my still bring this into your life, but in HIS timing.

USAF · Dec 6, 2003

Ben Tsion

But he is also a man, and men are not perfect. Nor should you doubt his faith for this mistake if it is in fact a mistake. Doesnt mean he is any less faithful or he is wrong, but man by nature is imperfect. Its whats in your heart

Well of course its a matter of how you perceive your faith. TO me, anybody who accepts Yoshua (Jesus) as the Messiah, is a Christian by faith

BenTsion · Dec 6, 2003

Never accept one persons or even 2 persons prophacy concerning your life. The Bible says "let every thing be established by 2 or 3 witnesses.

Hmm... I think you've hit the nail in the head, Trish!
You're right! I never thought of the 2-3 witnesses principle being applied to prophecy. And it makes PERFECT SENSE! I remember how once G-d gave me a prophecy concerning a girl during a group prayer and I remember she said I was the third person to tell her the same thing. 2-3 G-d-fearing witnesses... as usual, the Torah has the solution! That's why I believe that if G-d is our maker, His Torah is the manual for both physical and spiritual quality of life!

Baruch ata ADONAI noten HaTorah!!!

Ben Tsion

Trish1947 · Dec 6, 2003

BenTsion said:
Hmm... I think you've hit the nail in the head, Trish!
You're right! I never thought of the 2-3 witnesses principle being applied to prophecy. And it makes PERFECT SENSE! I remember how once G-d gave me a prophecy concerning a girl during a group prayer and I remember she said I was the third person to tell her the same thing. 2-3 G-d-fearing witnesses... as usual, the Torah has the solution! That's why I believe that if G-d is our maker, His Torah is the manual for both physical and spiritual quality of life!

Baruch ata ADONAI noten HaTorah!!!

Ben Tsion

Hmm... I think you've hit the nail in the head, Trish!
You're right! I never thought of the 2-3 witnesses principle being applied to prophecy

I'm so glad this helped you Ben Tsion, G-d's word never fails.

Henaynei · Dec 6, 2003

I had some one once tell me that the way to judge prophecy (before "fulfillment") is to use the Lighthouse principle.

Before modern navigational methods ships on the seas used lighthouses for costal navigation. The lighthouses were set on the coast in such a way as to show the ships the safe way into shore while avoiding rocks, reefs, sandbars, etc. When three lighthouses could be sighted as one, that is lined up and became a single light, then the ship was in safe waters.

How does this apply to prophecy?? What are the three lighthouses??

1) what scripture says - not the "find a verse for conformation" kind of say (out of context scripture can be made to say *anything*) but rather are you sure this does not conflict with anything in scripture?

2) what G-d has been telling/impressing on you in you time with Him?

3) witness from another g-dly person?

And in that order!! G-d will never send someone to tell you something He has not been telling you Himself - you may have ignored Him or not - but if someone tells you something G-d has not given you just "put it in a jar and place it up on a shelf" and wait to see if G-d says anything to you about it. I'll tell you I have never heard of a time when *that* kind of prophecy was of G-d.

Remember when you hear of a prophet what scripture says about them and the picture scripture draws of them:

1) a prophet of G-d is humble, meek with a history of 100% accuracy - I did not say shy or quiet or gentle - those are NOT requsites

2) prophets usually tried to reject the calling of G-d - being a prophet never brought the prophet anything but grief from the masses and the leadership. Prophets are of necessity not popular people - their messages were VERY rarely about financial or social gain or security, but were USUALLY about correction and outcomes. They were most often about correcting or confirming our relationship with G-d and not about our daily life choices.

USAF · Dec 6, 2003

But remember, even a Prophet of G-d is not always accepted, they are also rejected, and there is people who do not see it. Even Jesus was rejected by some. But remember, A Prophet will always carry with him the sign of Scripture

Ezekiel 1:27-28

27. And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so [was] the appearance of the brightness round about. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw [it], I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Henaynei · Dec 7, 2003

USAF said:
But remember, even a Prophet of G-d is not always accepted, they are also rejected, and there is people who do not see it. Even Jesus was rejected by some. But remember, A Prophet will always carry with him the sign of Scripture

First Yeshua was not a prophet. By defination a prophet speaks for G-d, Yehsua is G-d

Otherwise - This IS kinda my point. True prophets were almost always rejected. True prophets never were favored or honored. Unlike the brood that goes about today getting a standard "base fee & travel expenses, plus a % of the offering." They were much more likely to be chased from a town or community than
invited.

I see no reason what so ever to believe that we, today, are one whit better (that is in accepting TRUE prophecy) than our forefathers from Sinai to Akiva and beyond. True prophecy is not something one seeks out or invites but rather something the most humbly g-dly among us accept and heed and fear.

JMHO LOL

USAF · Dec 7, 2003

Henaynie

Certainly Yoshua would be a great prophet right? G-d speaks through a prophet, certainly when a prophet says THUS SAITH THE LORD that is not a man talking, who is it? A son of man is a prophet. Thats what Son of man is. You look throughout the Torah / Bible, and prophets were mentioned as son of Man. It is true Yoshua was G-d on earth yes. There is no doubt to that. Ben David and Ben Joseph. David is the Kingly line, Joseph is the prophetic line.

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