Recommended book on Creation

WonbyOneanddone said:

My book was not being endorsed by me as being 100% correct, but I think he is on the right path and worth a good read.

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Maybe so. I wasn't intending to disparage that idea. Sorry if I gave that impression.

WonbyOneanddone said:

So if we are talking days of creation, what is the author referring to by generations?

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The Hebrew word translated as generations, means HISTORY.

Genesis 2 is a review of creation that occurred in Genesis 1.

Here’s the Gen 2:4 verse with Strongs numbers:

Gen 2:4 These H428  are the generations H8435  of the heavens H8064  and of the earth H776  when they were created, H1254  in the day H3117  that the LORD H3068  God H430  made H6213  the earth H776  and the heavens, H80

Here’s the definition of H8435:

H8435 (Strong)

תֹּלְדָה תּוֹלְדָה

tôledâh tôledâh

to-led-aw', to-led-aw'

From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) HISTORY: - birth, generations.

WonbyOneanddone said:

Being a physicist, he even came up with his own theory of the days mentioned in the Bible as it correlates to how we perceive time today. The universe is some 15 billion years old according to science, and he theorizes that with each day in Genesis, time halved. In other words, day one was 8 billion years, day two was 4 billion years, day three was 2 billion years, day four was 1 billion years, day five was 500 million years, etc. The key here is understanding that time is not constant. Depending where you are in the universe, time passes differently and is effected by such things as acceleration that warps time and space.

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The problem with this scenario is that plants and trees are made on day three, and the sun on day four.

If there was a billion years in between, God would have to recreate all the dead vegetation.

Not to mention that the phrase ‘ the evening and morning was the first day’ , etc, is clearly talking about 24 hour days, not indefinite time periods.

Shalom.

Brightmoon said:

And I highly recommend that you read factual up to date science books if you want accurate information about nature

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Once upon a time, the steady state theory was the accepted cosmological model of astrophysics and astronomy, and the universe was said to have always existed.

If you read and believed the Bible back then, that states that the universe had a sudden beginning at a point in time, who would have been right - science, or the Bible?

The Big Bang theory is science catching up to the Genesis account of creation.

The Bible also said God hangs the earth on nothing, long before astronomy and telescopes were invented.

The Bible isn’t a science text - it’s a spiritual guide - but it has a pretty fair amount of science and medical knowledge in it, written long before science confirmed it.

WonbyOneanddone said:

Notice how in Genesis it says, "and there was evening and there was morning?" So tell us, before the sun was created on day 2, what was a day if it was a literal day? Last I checked a literal day was one rotation of the earth as it revolved around the sun, so if there was not sun during day 1, what was a day?

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The earth was still completing one revolution per each 24 hours on day one, I assume.

That’s what makes the sun appear to orbit the earth every day, so there’s your clock before the sun was made.

WonbyOneanddone said:

IF science goes against God then science is wrong. I would agree with this, but that is not my argument.

My argument is that the interpretation of scripture is misunderstood, much like it was when the Church insisted that the universe revolves around the Earth.

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Do you realize you have said two completely contradictory things?
"IF science goes against God then science is wrong."
Then you said
"the Cambrian explosion occurring some 500 million years ago"

If a passage needs interpreting that is done by praying and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance as you read.
Then you look up other scriptures on the topic and place them side by side to be sure you are getting the full picture.
Then if things are still unclear you look up the Greek and Hebrew words to be sure of the meaning of words after being translated into English.
That is how you interpret scripture, not by taking some outside worldly wisdom and bringing it back over to the Bible so that it can help tell you what the Bible really means.

Back to my original point, if you want to understand Scripture, read Scripture. I would leave the calculators for your household budget.

Brightmoon said:

The only “book” I’ll read about natural phenomena is natural phenomena itself. I really don’t care about theological ideas of nature as in the past they’ve been laughably wrong . Unfortunately what’s not funny is when religion murdered people over these pseudoscience ideas

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You do realize that atheism has killed over 107 million people in the 20th century, far outdoing deaths from religion?

WonbyOneanddone said:

It reminds me of how the Church once insisted that the universe really did revolve around the Earth and would burn anyone at the stake who disagreed. Well funny thing, the Bible does not actually say that the universe revolves around the Earth, it was an interpretation flaw of the Bible that was responsible for their error,

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It was the Catholic Church who insisted on the geocentric model for their cosmology, and if they got that view from the Bible, I’ve never seen that written in it.

There’s nothing in scripture that demands geocentrism or flat-earth belief, either.

BTW the astronomer who contended with the Roman Church, Galileo, was a Christian himself.

Though the RC burned heretics at the stake, I don’t recall any being burned for a heliocentric belief.

Shalom.

WonbyOneanddone said:

Atheism did not murder those people just like religion did not murder anyone.

The issue is politics. The state has murdered far more people than any other institution in human history.

Jesus did not run for political office for a reason. The church was otherwise innocent of ill repute until Constantine decided to conquer with the sword in the name of Christ and create a theocracy of sorts. Nest thing you know, inquisitions with people being burned at the stake and the persecution of Jews all over Europe and later Crusades sprung up overnight.

Incidentally, Constantine continued to worship pagan gods. He was not Christian, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

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Fascism and communism - both of which were atheist ideologies - murdered more than 150 million people in the 20th Century alone. Communist and other godless regimes have continued to kill hundreds of thousands since. Add the millions of rapes, tortures and enslavements by these same godless regimes, and you’ve got yourself a pretty ugly picture.

coffee4u said:

I don't need it to be a book of science, science is simply man's striving to understand what he sees. Science can be interesting and helpful until it goes directly against scripture.

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Science used to be mans striving to understand God’s creation - back when science owed its very existence to men who believed in God.

Science today has been hijacked by atheistic and materialistic naturalism.


But it was men with belief in God who gave us the modern scientific method, physics, genetics, magnetism and electricity, astronomy, quantum theory, and general and special relativity, and more.


Francis Bacon invented the modern scientific method:


Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)

Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)


Isaac Newton gave us physics and calculus:


Isaac Newton (1642-1727)

In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."


Mendel is the father of genetics:


Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)

Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.


William Thompson Kelvin helped establish modern physics:


William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)

Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions."


Max Planck gave us quantum physics:


Max Planck (1858-1947)

Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God”


Michael Faraday is famous for his work with electricity and magnetism:


Michael Faraday (1791-1867)

Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.


Albert Einstein gave us the famous formula: Energy = Mass times the speed of light, squared, plus general and special relativity:


Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."


And believers in God gave us astronomy:


Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)

Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.


Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!


Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.


Also the Big Bang theory came from a Christian, and was originally called the Primordial Atom (or Primeval Atom) theory - so even today’s standard cosmological model, came from someone with God belief.

Brightmoon said:

Birds evolved from fish many millions of years later for example .

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Where did you get that information?

The current theory is that birds evolved from dinosaurs, not fish - specifically from theropods.

Though that theory is highly problematic, and I believe it’s complete wrong: it’s what the metaphysical philosophy of naturalistic materialism, aka the theory of evolution, currently claims.

klutedavid said:

If the 'tree of life' is a real tree and not Jesus Christ, then you are following a literal reading of Genesis.

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Though the tree of life might be a typology of Jesus, it’s a real tree - it was guarded by a sword-wielding angel after the fall, so Adam couldn’t get to it, then removed from the earth later - but shows up again as multiple trees-of-life on both sides of the river flowing from Jerusalem, in Revelation 22:2.

WonbyOneanddone said:

History of 6 days?

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That’s what it says. It’s a review of Genesis 1.

JFB commentary writes:

Genesis 2:4

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth — the history or account of their production. Whence did Moses obtain this account so different from the puerile and absurd fictions of the heathen? Not from any human source, for man was not in existence to witness it; not from the light of nature or reason, for though they proclaim the eternal power and Godhead by the things which are made, they cannot tell how they were made. None but the Creator Himself could give this information, and therefore it is through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God (Heb 11:3).

David Guzik commentary:

2. (Gen 2:4-7) The history of the heavens and the earth.

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

a. This is the history of the heavens and the earth: This probably ends the “genealogy” of the heavens and the earth, a history given directly by God to either Moses or Adam, recording the history of God’s seven-day creation. This was something no human was present to witness.

b. In the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens: This is the first use of LORD (Yahweh) in the Bible. Our English word Lord comes from the Anglo-Saxon word for bread (as does our word loaf), because ancient English men of high stature would keep a continual open house, where all could come and get bread to eat. They gained the honorable title of lords, meaning “dispensers of bread.”

The

chad kincham said:

Where did you get that information?

The current theory is that birds evolved from dinosaurs, not fish - specifically from theropods.

Though that theory is highly problematic, and I believe it’s complete wrong: it’s what the metaphysical philosophy of naturalistic materialism, aka the theory of evolution, currently claims.

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fish are the ancestors of all land vertebrates. Your OPINION of a verified scientific theory is your own and disagrees with the verifiable evidence for it ( shrug)

WonbyOneanddone said:

My point here is, the truth is the truth whether it be material truth or spiritual truth. At times, both may seem to contradict each other, at which point, you have to ask, which am I looking at incorrectly, or is it both?

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Well that easy to answer, there was no 'Cambrian explosion occurring some 500 million years ago' because God told us that he created in 6 days and it was fairly recent, as in 10-15 thousand years ago.