Receiving the mark on the forehead or hand

[k4c]

Revelation 14:9-10 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

The book of Revelation is a very symbolic book. In other words, it uses symbols to teach spiritual lessons.

The beast we know from Scriptures is the Pope and his church and the mark of the beast is 666, which is symbolic for the name or authority of the Pope.

A name represents authority. For example, casting out demons in the name of Jesus.

The hand is symbolic for our works and the forehead is symolic for worship because its the part of the mind where worship takes place and moral decissions are made.

Those who are condemned in the end will either have the mark of the beast on their forehead or on their hand.

In other words, those who have the mark on their forehead will be worshiping the Pope and his church. They will stand up for the church and defend it with their lives. Those who have the mark on their hand may not be worshiping the Catholic church, they may even be speaking against it but their works will be in line with the beliefs and practices of the Catholic church. For example, Sunday worship, going to heaven or a burning hell at death, Easter Sunday is resurrection day, December 25th is Jesus' birthday.

The context of Revelation 14:9 reveals the difference between those who have the mark of the beast and those who will be in the kingdom.

Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The commandments of God are the Ten Commandments and the faith of Jesus is seen in how He spoke and lived His life in light of the Ten Commandments. He magnified the law and brought honor to them.

Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the law and make it honorable.

Matthew 19:17 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.''

Amen...

 

[Jimlarmore]

K4c,
Thanks for this thread, I think it's important to say here that no one at this point has received the mark of the beast in either fashion, ( forehead or hand). I truely believe that the mark of the beast will be a "right at the very end" of time issue. When this challenge is presented to the faithful things will be happening very quickly. For those who are looking for the signs of this event it seems the current events are rapidly heading in that direction. Let's watch what happens in the next fews months and year or so. We could see the end of all of this in the very near future.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[k4c]

K4c,
Thanks for this thread, I think it's important to say here that no one at this point has received the mark of the beast in either fashion, ( forehead or hand). I truely believe that the mark of the beast will be a "right at the very end" of time issue. When this challenge is presented to the faithful things will be happening very quickly. For those who are looking for the signs of this event it seems the current events are rapidly heading in that direction. Let's watch what happens in the next fews months and year or so. We could see the end of all of this in the very near future.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Hi Jim,

I agree that the fulfillment of these things will be brought to head when the testing of our faith comes through persecution. It's at this time we will have to make a stand for what we believe, there will be no more gray areas. Though this will all come to head closer to the end of this age, we are all establishing where we stand right now. Right now people are worshiping the beast or its image. The beast is the papal system itself and the image of the beast is the religious system outside of the papacy that has the same beliefs and practices. Listen to what the Catholic church says about the Protestants.

"Since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not from the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent. The custom of Sunday observance rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." (Roman Catholic scholar John A. O'Brien, The Faith of Millions, 1974, p.400,401.)

Right now in time we have these two main systems of worship within the Christian faith. We have those worshiping the beast who have its mark on their forehead and we have those who worship the image who have the mark on their hand. Both these marks are symbolic for where our allegiance is.

I believe these two groups, who have the mark now, will be standing together at the end but those of Revelation 12:17 will be the outcast.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As things get harder closer to the end we will begin to see a clear line as to which side we're on when we are forced to make a stand for what we believe.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Hi Jim,

I agree that the fulfillment of these things will be brought to head when the testing of our faith comes through persecution. It's at this time we will have to make a stand for what we believe, there will be no more gray areas. Though this will all come to head closer to the end of this age, we are all establishing where we stand right now. Right now people are worshiping the beast or its image. The beast is the papal system itself and the image of the beast is the religious system outside of the papacy that has the same beliefs and practices. Listen to what the Catholic church says about the Protestants.

Of course you are right about this and I agree it's just the mark itself has not been placed yet on those who are worshipping the beast as we speak. I believe we are as yet in the time when Christ is pleading with His people as it says in Revelations 18:4 "Come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her plagues".

"Since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not from the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent. The custom of Sunday observance rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." (Roman Catholic scholar John A. O'Brien, The Faith of Millions, 1974, p.400,401.)

This is one of the strongest statements I've ever seen that confirms that the Catholic/papal power changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

Right now in time we have these two main systems of worship within the Christian faith. We have those worshiping the beast who have its mark on their forehead and we have those who worship the image who have the mark on their hand. Both these marks are symbolic for where our allegiance is.

I believe these two groups, who have the mark now, will be standing together at the end but those of Revelation 12:17 will be the outcast.

This may be a technical issue but I don't believe they have the mark now. It's true that they may fully know all the issues of accepting a tradition of man over the commands of God. However, until this challenge co-incides with the close of probation and a national Sunday law it won't be the mark spoken of in Revelation that is placed on the forehead or the hand. I believe the seal of God and the mark of the beast come basically at the same time.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As things get harder closer to the end we will begin to see a clear line as to which side we're on when we are forced to make a stand for what we believe.

The mark of the beast represents the strongest warning God makes in the entire Bible. I believe before it happens that those who will be effected will be able to see very clearly the two paths that is set before them. Right now there are millions who don't know what the mark of the beast really is. Millions think it's going to be some kind of implanted subcutaneous device or that it's a computer in Holland etc.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[k4c]

Of course you are right about this and I agree it's just the mark itself has not been placed yet on those who are worshipping the beast as we speak. I believe we are as yet in the time when Christ is pleading with His people as it says in Revelations 18:4 "Come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her plagues".
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This is one of the strongest statements I've ever seen that confirms that the Catholic/papal power changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.



This may be a technical issue but I don't believe they have the mark now. It's true that they may fully know all the issues of accepting a tradition of man over the commands of God. However, until this challenge co-incides with the close of probation and a national Sunday law it won't be the mark spoken of in Revelation that is placed on the forehead or the hand. I believe the seal of God and the mark of the beast come basically at the same time.


The mark of the beast represents the strongest warning God makes in the entire Bible. I believe before it happens that those who will be effected will be able to see very clearly the two paths that is set before them. Right now there are millions who don't know what the mark of the beast really is. Millions think it's going to be some kind of implanted subcutaneous device or that it's a computer in Holland etc.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

It seems to me that you believe the mark is a literal mark. I believe the mark is the fact they are worshiping the beast or its image. But I could be wrong.

In God's Great Love,
John

 

[Jimlarmore]

It seems to me that you believe the mark is a literal mark. I believe the mark is the fact they are worshiping the beast or its image. But I could be wrong.

In God's Great Love,
John

Not at all friend. I believe it's a "Spiritual Mark" perceived by the Creator Himself. The mark in the forehead is symbolic of the mental assent to the traditions of man over God's commands. The mark in the hand is symbolic of actions that may or may not have anything to do at all with spiritual issues. It is as you say a worship issue forced upon ALL MANKIND according to the Bible. My only point was that no one right now has received the mark of the beast that condemns man to death/damnation as the Bible says will happen when this all goes down.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[BlackSabb]

Revelation 14:9-10 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

The book of Revelation is a very symbolic book. In other words, it uses symbols to teach spiritual lessons.

The beast we know from Scriptures is the Pope and his church and the mark of the beast is 666, which is symbolic for the name or authority of the Pope.

A name represents authority. For example, casting out demons in the name of Jesus.

The hand is symbolic for our works and the forehead is symolic for worship because its the part of the mind where worship takes place and moral decissions are made.

Those who are condemned in the end will either have the mark of the beast on their forehead or on their hand.

In other words, those who have the mark on their forehead will be worshiping the Pope and his church. They will stand up for the church and defend it with their lives. Those who have the mark on their hand may not be worshiping the Catholic church, they may even be speaking against it but their works will be in line with the beliefs and practices of the Catholic church. For example, Sunday worship, going to heaven or a burning hell at death, Easter Sunday is resurrection day, December 25th is Jesus' birthday.

The context of Revelation 14:9 reveals the difference between those who have the mark of the beast and those who will be in the kingdom.

Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The commandments of God are the Ten Commandments and the faith of Jesus is seen in how He spoke and lived His life in light of the Ten Commandments. He magnified the law and brought honor to them.

Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the law and make it honorable.

Matthew 19:17 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.''

Amen...

I don't mind that you have a particular interpetation of end times events. One of thousands of possible scenarious that I roll my eyes at, as I think all these interpretations are ludicrous.

What I find reprehensible is that you have the audacity to take the Bible and apply your own end times interpretations to denounce just one denomination. I find that appalling.

For your information too, the Catholic Church has been in serious decline for decades now. So too many of the traditional churches. It's the new style fangled Pentecostal churches and their ilk that have come to the fore these days.

But in any event, how do you live with yourself claiming such outrageous things that just one denomination is the antiChrist and beast?

 

[Stryder06]

I don't mind that you have a particular interpetation of end times events. One of thousands of possible scenarious that I roll my eyes at, as I think all these interpretations are ludicrous.

What I find reprehensible is that you have the audacity to take the Bible and apply your own end times interpretations to denounce just one denomination. I find that appalling.

For your information too, the Catholic Church has been in serious decline for decades now. So too many of the traditional churches. It's the new style fangled Pentecostal churches and their ilk that have come to the fore these days.

But in any event, how do you live with yourself claiming such outrageous things that just one denomination is the antiChrist and beast?

Prophecy.

 

[k4c]

Prophecy.

Amen...

We dare not teach against the prophesies.

Without the prophesies and their accuracy, which guide and direct us in what we should believe, the Bible would be just another book.

 

[BlackSabb]

Prophecy.

Really? Well, what about if I said that Paul prophesied that false churches will rise, telling people to:

1...The forbidding of marrying (Catholic Church)

2..The forbidding of eating of certain foods which God created to be eaten with thanks. (guess who?)


I'd be very careful slandering one denomination. Yours can be easily interpreted for just as much condemnation in the Bible too.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I don't mind that you have a particular interpetation of end times events. One of thousands of possible scenarious that I roll my eyes at, as I think all these interpretations are ludicrous.

What I find reprehensible is that you have the audacity to take the Bible and apply your own end times interpretations to denounce just one denomination. I find that appalling.

For your information too, the Catholic Church has been in serious decline for decades now. So too many of the traditional churches. It's the new style fangled Pentecostal churches and their ilk that have come to the fore these days.

But in any event, how do you live with yourself claiming such outrageous things that just one denomination is the antiChrist and beast?

Actually what I find appalling is that a so-called Christian would don the name of such a vile and satanic band like Black Sabbath. Do you not care that you are bringing reproach upon the name of Christ while glorifying the occult? Why do you lack the discernment and put no difference between the holy and the profane?

 

[BlackSabb]

Actually what I find appalling is that a so-called Christian would don the name of such a vile and satanic band like Black Sabbath. Do you not care that you are bringing reproach upon the name of Christ while glorifying the occult? Why do you lack the discernment and put no difference between the holy and the profane?

Wow, what a reaction!! It kind of says a lot about you. And for your information dude, Black Sabbath are about as "Satanic" and "occult" as the cookie monster is real.

But nice try.

Have you even bothered to listen to some Black Sabbath? I've sampled Seventh Day Adventism by going to your services to find out about it for myself. Have you done likewise?

I doubt it.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Wow, what a reaction!! It kind of says a lot about you. And for your information dude, Black Sabbath are about as "Satanic" and "occult" as the cookie monster is real.

But nice try.

Have you even bothered to listen to some Black Sabbath? I've sampled Seventh Day Adventism by going to your services to find out about it for myself. Have you done likewise?

I doubt it.

Ozzy Osbourne--need we say more? And yes--I have watched that stupid band and read the non-nonsensical lyrics of their "music' and I therefore stand by my former comments.

Black Sabbath are an English rock band, formed in Birmingham in 1968[1] by Ozzy Osbourne (lead vocals), Tony Iommi (guitar), Geezer Butler (bass), and Bill Ward (drums and percussion). The band has since experienced multiple lineup changes, with a total of twenty-two former members. Originally formed as a heavy blues-rock band named Earth, the band began incorporating occult- and horror-inspired lyrics with tuned-down guitars, changing their name to Black Sabbath and achieving multiple gold and platinum records in the 1970s. As one of the first and most influential heavy metal bands of all time,[2] Black Sabbath helped define the genre with releases such as 1970s quadruple-platinum Paranoid.[3] They were ranked by MTV as the "Greatest Metal Band" of all time,[4] and have sold over fifteen million records in the United States alone.[5]

 

[RND]

Wow, what a reaction!! It kind of says a lot about you. And for your information dude, Black Sabbath are about as "Satanic" and "occult" as the cookie monster is real.

But nice try.

Have you even bothered to listen to some Black Sabbath? I've sampled Seventh Day Adventism by going to your services to find out about it for myself. Have you done likewise?

I doubt it.

Black Sabbath is famous for singing songs about Satan, the occult and the hero of Occultism, and modern Satanism Aleister Crowley. Proof?

Mr. Crowley, what went on in your head
Mr. Crowley, did you talk with the dead
Your life style to me seemed so tragic
With the thrill of it all
You fooled all the people with magic
You waited on Satan's call
Mr. Charming, did you think you were pure
Mr. Alarming, in nocturnal rapport
Uncovering things that were sacred manifest on this Earth
Conceived in the eye of a secret
And they scattered the afterbirth
(solo)
Mr. Crowley, won't you ride my white horse
Mr. Crowley, it's symbolic of course
Approaching a time that is classic
I hear maidens call
Approaching a time that is drastic
Standing with their backs to the wall
Was it polemically sent
l wanna know what you meant
I wanna know
I wanna know what you meant

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 1 of 14 (4 steps shift in moral values, aleister crowley)

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 2 of 14 ( the new age, NWO of antichrist, drugs and sex revolution)

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 3 of 14 (1960s revolution, homosexuality, Elvis Presley)

So what does all this mean? Oh, not much except that Black Sabbath sung about and idolized a renown Satanist out to destroy the world.

 

[ricker]

Black Sabbath is famous for singing songs about Satan, the occult and the hero of Occultism, and modern Satanism Aleister Crowley. Proof?

Mr. Crowley, what went on in your head
Mr. Crowley, did you talk with the dead
Your life style to me seemed so tragic
With the thrill of it all
You fooled all the people with magic
You waited on Satan's call
Mr. Charming, did you think you were pure
Mr. Alarming, in nocturnal rapport
Uncovering things that were sacred manifest on this Earth
Conceived in the eye of a secret
And they scattered the afterbirth
(solo)
Mr. Crowley, won't you ride my white horse
Mr. Crowley, it's symbolic of course
Approaching a time that is classic
I hear maidens call
Approaching a time that is drastic
Standing with their backs to the wall
Was it polemically sent
l wanna know what you meant
I wanna know
I wanna know what you meant

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 1 of 14 (4 steps shift in moral values, aleister crowley)

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 2 of 14 ( the new age, NWO of antichrist, drugs and sex revolution)

YouTube - SATANISM AND MODERN CULTURE 3 of 14 (1960s revolution, homosexuality, Elvis Presley)

So what does all this mean? Oh, not much except that Black Sabbath sung about and idolized a renown Satanist out to destroy the world.

When I was attending Union College (SDA) in the late seventies I was good friends with an ecellent student from England, and he confirmed that Ozzy and others in BS were raised SDA's. If I remember right he said they were from the Birmingham area. Here is a quote from Yahoo answers.

Black Sabbath is an ex Seventh-day Adventist band hence the name Black Sabbath. Seventh-day Adventists are people who believe in worshipping on Saturday instead of Sunday and they also have many other distinct beliefs; which seperate them from other Christian churches....

Edit to add: this is just a curious aside, not meant to be taken as either a slight in any way to Adventism, or the band Black Sabbath, and could be an "urban legend".

 

[RND]

When I was attending Union College in the late seventies I was good friends with an ecellent student from England and he confirmed that Ozzy and others in BS were raised SDA's. If I remember right he said they were from the Birmingham area. Here is a quote from Yahoo answers.

Ricker, were you writing this to inform us that only SDA's that join rock bands can be Satanist's? My understanding is that Prince was also SDA and hence the song "Kill all the Sevens." Little Richard grew up Adventist as well.

All that proves is that anybody can fall right into the clutches of Satan.

 

[RND]

BS, your love of the band Black Sabbath is shown to be greater than your love of men and therefore they have had the desired effect on you that Satan chose. That is quite tragic frankly.

If you find it difficult to draw a connection between what we see happening in the world today, everything from brutality at home, the exploitation of children as sex objects, the overwhelming burden that illicit sex, drug use and abuse have caused this nation and it's families, and the massive evidence of the overall decline of values in America in the last 60-70 years then that could only be done willingly and I pity you greatly. I ask God to turn your music on it's ear.

One of the great attributes of Lucifer was the fact that he could simply open his mouth and make wonderful music. It is no less a wonder that he would use music in these last days to deceive millions and millions causing them to reject the only true lifeline they have - Jesus Christ.

I actually pity you a great deal that you could be so ready to defend a rock n' roll band, and seemingly so willing to reject the only Son of God that can save you from the terror that soon will come upon the face of the earth.

Hsa 4:17 Ephraim [is] joined to idols: let him alone.

 

[ricker]

Ricker, were you writing this to inform us that only SDA's that join rock bands can be Satanist's? My understanding is that Prince was also SDA and hence the song "Kill all the Sevens." Little Richard grew up Adventist as well.

All that proves is that anybody can fall right into the clutches of Satan.

Ricker wrote:

Edit to add: this is just a curious aside, not meant to be taken as either a slight in any way to Adventism, or the band Black Sabbath, and could be an "urban legend".

I thought I left a nice disclaimer as to not offend anyone. Wasn't the information interesting and possibly pertinent? My apologies.

 

[Pythons]

I've always been fond of the Rat Salad LP and War Pigs.

 

[BlackSabb]

I've always been fond of the Rat Salad LP and War Pigs.

Yeah I like those two also. But let's keep that our secret between you and me, without RND finding out. Seeming though as the end is near and I'm in Satan's clutches as I apparently have no love for Jesus.

You can tell all that by my favourite band apparently.