Rapture will happen..does it matter when?

[TalwinStark]

This thread is to discuss what is important. does it truly matter when the rapture happens? Or does it matter more what we do until then seeing as how the bible states that we will never know the time, day, month, or year?

THIS IS ONLY FOR DEBATE NOT CONVERTING.

If it gets to wild and people start hating on others beliefs then I will ask that he thread be taken down.

The object is to have a good healthy discussion with the KINGDOM and not single denominations.

I like to style myself as the Pentecostal Lutheran, I was raised Lutheran but now attend and am a leader at a Church of God (TN) church

 

[faroukfarouk]

The question can be stated I suppose whether the coming of the Lord for His Church needs to be preceded by other events in Scripture; personally I don't see what has to come before the coming at the end of 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[TalwinStark]

The question can be stated I suppose whether the coming of the Lord for His Church needs to be preceded by other events in Scripture; personally I don't see what has to come before the coming at the end of 1 Thessalonians 4.

But when we look at Revelation we see that there would be things to come before and signs that would point us to His return.

But I think if we get so focused and fixated on the when we miss the why

The phrase "its not the destination but the journey that matters" comes to mind. In our journey here on Earth we need to make disciples and preach and teach. I am afraid that we get so wrapped up in things that don't matter to salvation. If it happens before the trib thank God but if it doesnt...then I'd rather be about the work at hand.

 

[faroukfarouk]

But when we look at Revelation we see that there would be things to come before and signs that would point us to His return.

But I think if we get so focused and fixated on the when we miss the why

The phrase "its not the destination but the journey that matters" comes to mind. In our journey here on Earth we need to make disciples and preach and teach. I am afraid that we get so wrapped up in things that don't matter to salvation. If it happens before the trib thank God but if it doesnt...then I'd rather be about the work at hand.

Re. tribulation, it's interesting that in Matthew 24 the term seems to refer to a unique event; while in John 16.33 it seems to refer to an ongoing process. Same with the Lord's return; some passages seem to refer to the Lord's coming for His saints - what you call (rightly) the rapture; while others seem to refer to the Lord coming in power and glory. You are right; meanwhile, the believer is here to serve Him.

 

[Straightshot]

My comment


It does matter and here is why

The related scriptures all taken together gives the Lord's intent to call His own of the dead in Christ and those living at the time to immortality .... the believer's greatest hope and reward

It is in His character to keep those living just before the onset of His judgment against an unbelieving world from His wrath that will be meted out upon the earth

This is the number one argument of those who teach this and those who teach against it presented today

If unbelievers observe this behavior among those who claim to be Christians the chances of any turning to the Lord will be slim and next to none .... this argument alone will keep millions from ever considering their need for His salvation

Unfortunately the argument will continue to rage up until the day comes with no warning or related signs

A narrow gate indeed, just as He has stated .... few will find and choose

 

[LastSeven]

It matters when we believe it to happen, because it matters that we understand God's plan as it helps us to understand God himself.

 

[TalwinStark]

It matters when we believe it to happen, because it matters that we understand God's plan as it helps us to understand God himself.

But shouldn't we be more concerned with getting people to Christ?

 

[LastSeven]

If you're asking about ranking the most important to the least important, that's a different issue.

I'm just saying it's important that we understand God's plan and I believe God wants us to understand his plan or he would not have given us Revelation, and to brush it off and say "it's not a salvation issue" is really like closing your mind and saying "thanks God, but I know all I need to know and the rest is not important".

God wants to commune with us and he wants us to know him and the best way for us to get to know him is to try to understand his plan for us.

 

[TalwinStark]

If you're asking about ranking the most important to the least important, that's a different issue.

I'm just saying it's important that we understand God's plan and I believe God wants us to understand his plan or he would not have given us Revelation, and to brush it off and say "it's not a salvation issue" is really like closing your mind and saying "thanks God, but I know all I need to know and the rest is not important".

God wants to commune with us and he wants us to know him and the best way for us to get to know him is to try to understand his plan for us.

Well said!

 

[LastSeven]

But shouldn't we be more concerned with getting people to Christ?

And keep in mind that the better we understand God's plan, the more effectively we can preach to the unbelievers.

 

[Straightshot]

"But shouldn't we be more concerned with getting people to Christ?"


Without this vital step first, one can forget about the rest of the story

This endeavor is very difficult to do in today's world .... most people are ignorant, uneducated, and careless with their lives .... like it was in the days of Noah

So the Christian witness is not the most popular theme to talk about today

And effective preaching and teaching of His Word is scant ..... many productions, but few with the truth

The Lord has said that this would come and it is here .... big time

It is imperative for the Christian preacher/teacher to tell people what they need to know about their fate and not to just tell them what they want to hear

The first is not just a "feel good" presentation and the second one is disturbingly lacking

 

[faroukfarouk]

And keep in mind that the better we understand God's plan, the more effectively we can preach to the unbelievers.

Good point, yes; and Scripture gives us a scheme of things regarding the Lord's coming for His Saints, with His saints in power and glory, etc.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, it matters - a lot.
-

 

[Psalm3704]

This thread is to discuss what is important. does it truly matter when the rapture happens?

Yes! Nothing else matters or compares.

Christ cannot rescue those who willfully refuse or deny the rapture, deliverance from the wrath of God. He will not override anyone's freewill if they wish to take part in the tribulation. Too many scriptures clearly states it, and He also commanded us to be watchful for His return when the season is upon us.....which is now. Mark 13:37 is about the rapture.

The only ones on earth who will be protected from the tribulation are the 144,000 who will be sealed.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (ESV) and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (GNT) and to wait for his Son to come from heaven - his Son Jesus, whom he raised from death and who rescues us from God's anger that is coming.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/1-thessalonians/1-10-compare.html

Hebrews 9:28 (NIV) so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:28 (ESV) so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/9-28-compare.html​

Mark 13:37 (ESV) And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake."

Mark 13:37 (GW) I'm telling everyone what I'm telling you: 'Be alert!'"

Mark 13:37 (NCV) I tell you this, and I say this to everyone: 'Be ready!'"

Mark 13:37 (NKJV) And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

http://www.biblestudytools.com/mark/13-37-compare.html​

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[Douggg]

Christ cannot rescue those who willfully refuse or deny the rapture, deliverance from the wrath of God. He will not override anyone's freewill if they wish to take part in the tribulation. Too many scriptures clearly states it, and He also commanded us to be watchful for His return when the season is upon us.....which is now. Mark 13:37 is about the rapture.

Such as when Jesus visited some towns, he could do no miracles because the people did not believe him. It was not that Jesus could not do the miracles by His ability. But only if people believed him, that he acted according to their belief.

 

[Straightshot]

"He also commanded us to be watchful for His return when the season is upon us.....which is now. Mark 13:37 is about the rapture.'


All on this forum need to know that there is huge distraction from the Lord's command of the devil's doing today .... Satan has a motive

Those that want to brave the tribulation have been distracted and if alive at the time when the Lord's judgment begins there will be no need to "watch" .... because it will be obvious to all of them that they are under His wrath [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

And the literal count down will begin and tick off to His appearing upon the earth at the end which can be counted .... no need to watch for the unexpected

The need is to watch before the dating of His judgment begins of which no one can know

 

[Inkfingers]

He also commanded us to be watchful for His return when the season is upon us

Therein is the key point. If we were not supposed to look for it, why would the Bible say:
1) watch
2) what to watch for

 

[Psalm3704]

Such as when Jesus visited some towns, he could do no miracles because the people did not believe him. It was not that Jesus could not do the miracles by His ability. But only if people believed him, that he acted according to their belief.

Agreed Douggg.

Mark 6:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.” 5 Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching.

Matthew 13:57-58 New King James Version (NKJV)
57 So they were offended at Him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.” 58 Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.







.​

 

[Psalm3704]

For those that didn't know, Jesus gave us a warning about those who can rob you of your crown in Revelation 3:11.

Revelation 3:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
​

This is what it means. At the rapture when Jesus comes for the church, He'll rewards each of us at the Bema Seat which is in heaven. Those who do not get rapture into heaven will never be able to receive their reward. Their rewards has been forfeited because of their unbelief that Christ is coming to save us from the wrath of God. Many in the church had been lead astray to believe they must go through the tribulation and that the timing of the rapture happens at the end. These are the one who will lose their crowns and other "eternal" rewards.

By their faith, Christ was able to performs many miracles 2000 years ago. Due to their disbelief, Christ cannot rescue those who firmly believes they must endure the tribulation.










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​

 

[DingDing]

This thread is to discuss what is important. does it truly matter when the rapture happens? Or does it matter more what we do until then seeing as how the bible states that we will never know the time, day, month, or year?
...

I believe the importance comes into play with regard to how the "rapture" is related to other events. If other events - like an extreme persecution at the hands of antichrist which will cause many saved persons to fall away from the faith - occur before the rapture, then the importance of the timing of the rapture in relation to these other events is very critical. All this requires people to wake up and think seriously. If one is stuck in the once-saved-always-saved camp, or in the pre-trib rapture camp, then the seriousness of all this is totally missed. And a large portion of the "church" falls in one or both of these camps. Much of the "church" has filled a great many people with these two false hopes: You can't lose it (salvation), and you won't have to face the ultimate time of testing at the hands of antichrist. Much, if not most, of the modern church has put itself in a very bad spot. People are not going to be prepared for what is coming, and they will only have themselves to blame. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.