Pre-Mil Only Rapture: The Final Four?

[Jeffwhosoever]

This is a well done evaluation of the rapture timing that I found intriguing. It does a good job of referencing Scripture to back up timing analysis and assumptions they did mostly empirically much as several of us have done. No it is not perfect and it is strictly a Pre-trib Pre-Millenial eschatology but I thought these two gents did a good job in this video I came across in my youtube.com feed (the only TV I can get currently in Ecuador):

 

[TribulationSigns]

Almost like 4 blood moon theory all over again. The Pre-trib/millennial eschatology is not an accurate interpretation with loads of speculations. But that is just me.

 

[Douggg]

I consider the video rationale - as first stage rationale. The 2000 year rationale from Jesus's death on the cross to the day of His Return, calculated to be 2033 in the video.

second stage rationale - has to be before the beginning the day of the Lord. 1Thessalonians5 and 2Thessalonians2:4 rationale.

third stage rationale - has to be before 3 years (thereabouts), right after Gog/Magog.

fourth stage rationale - the parable of the fig tree generation not passing away.

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The rapture could happen "anytime" between right this very second and the day the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, and claims to have achieved God-hood (in the middle part of the 7 years, around the 3 year mark, cannot be determined precisely).

That act by the Antichrist triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord. 1Thessalonians5:9-11 is the rapture/resurrection event, to take place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord referred to in the early verses of the chapter, as the peace and safety saying of the false messianic age is shattered, by the Antichrist's act .

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Limiting factor, not later than (besides the 2033 rationale of the video) is the parable of the fig tree generation.
1967 (Jerusalem the fig tree) + 70 years (psalms 90:10) = 2037 Jesus returns, minus the 7 years, the 7 years begins in 2030, not later than.

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What concrete event contains the 7 years? Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39. The 7 years following in Ezekiel 39:9 are the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. 100% certainty because of Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20, and Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to this earth.

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So there are multiple convergences.

1. The 2000 years since 33 ad.
2. The parable of the fig tree generation not passing away
3. The Gog/Magog event

If we believers are still here after the Gog/Magog event takes place, then the no later than window is substantially compressed further to be not more than 3 years, thereabouts away, for when the Antichrist commits the 2 Thessalonians 2:4 act.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

They are about to rebuild the temple in Israel right? I'm an "anytime rapture" guy too because I don't think the Scripture is clear enough to know whether its pre-trib, mid or pre-wrath but its definitely in that period of time IMHO.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jeffwhosoever
You seem to attack other ideas but seldom present your own views which begs the question why always attack and not put forward your own views instead? I'm really interested in your views, not off the cuff comparisons to some non-scholarly viewpoint that no one in this forum have I ever seen defend (4 blood moon idea).

There were several debates about the four-blood moon here two years ago or more.

Here is one Example. Another example.

Point is...I see a similar method of their interpretation based on speculations or "what-ifs" Not based on biblical facts without understanding what God's Word actually talked about.

 

[DavidPT]

I'm an "anytime rapture" guy too because I don't think the Scripture is clear enough to know whether its pre-trib, mid or pre-wrath but its definitely in that period of time IMHO.

Except Douggg doesn't mean 'anytime' like you are taking it to mean. His view doesn't allow for the rapture to be after great tribulation. A valid 'anytime' rapture view would be that the rapture might occur before the trib, during the trib, or even after the trib. Except Doggg's anytime rapture can only occur anytime before the trib.

And as to a midtrib rapture since you brought that up, that it is the same thing as Pretrib the fact that rapture is meaning before great tribulation begins, not in the middle of it instead. Great tribulation is 3.5 years not 7 years. The middle of 3.5 years is not 3.5 years, it is 1.75 years.

Assuming 7 years, the first half, the first 3.5 years, is not great tribulation, only the last 3.5 years are. Therefore, one can't base mid trib on 7 years since the first 3.5 years wouldn't even be involving tribulation. How could it be midtrib, the fact it precedes the beginning of the great tribulation? Therefore, it is Pretrib not midtrib. There is no such thing as a valid midtrib view unless the great tribulation is 7 years. Great tribulation and the 42 month reign of the beast, these mean the same thing. No way is 42 months the same as 7 years.

As to your tag you put on this thread, Pre-Mil Only, shouldn't that mean anyone that opposes Pre-Mil, they shouldn't be posting in this thread? There is at least one Amil posting in this thread, where I don't see how Pre-Mil only can be meaning Premils and Amils. Maybe I misunderstand the purpose for tags like that?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

My goodness don't make it complicated. Anytime means anytime...possibly today!

 

[DavidPT]

My goodness don't make it complicated. Anytime means anytime...possibly today!

Does that then mean you agree that 'anytime' can also mean anytime after great tribulation? If no, then that contradicts 'anytime', since 'anytime' should mean anytime from right now through after great tribulation.

 

[DavidPT]

My goodness don't make it complicated. Anytime means anytime...possibly today!

As to Douggg in particular, the fact he has 'anytime rapture' listed under his username, that this is misleading. The reason why it is, when I initially saw that under his username, I was thinking to myself that Douggg apparently thinks the rapture could happen today, tommorrow, maybe before the trib, or maybe even after the trib, thus an anytime rapture. Where at the time I thought that was reasonable. Except it turned out afterwards that he was only meaning anytime before the beginning of the great trib. Everyone knows that any rapture that takes place before great tribulation, this is obviously Pretrib.

What Douggg should do in order to not mislead others as I was initially misled, is to simply put under his username this---anytime rapture before the start of great tribulation---or something similar to that. Now it is crystal clear what he is meaning, therefore, no longer being debatable nor misleading.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Does that then mean you agree that 'anytime' can also mean anytime after great tribulation? If no, then that contradicts 'anytime', since 'anytime' should mean anytime from right now through after great tribulation.

Anytime means just that.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

What Douggg should do in order to not mislead others as I was initially misled, is to simply put under his username this---anytime rapture before the start of great tribulation---or something similar to that. Now it is crystal clear what he is meaning, therefore, no longer being debatable nor misleading.

Why were you misled?

 

[Douggg]

Except Doggg's anytime rapture can only occur anytime before the trib.

Actually, David, anytime before the Antichrist's transgression of desolation act of going into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood - shattering the peace and safety delusion the false messianic age begun when the Antichrist is anointed the King of Israel - and with the shattering of the peace and safety, the Day of the Lord begins.

It's on my chart below.

 

[Douggg]

What Douggg should do in order to not mislead others as I was initially misled, is to simply put under his username this---anytime rapture before the start of great tribulation---or something similar to that. Now it is crystal clear what he is meaning, therefore, no longer being debatable nor misleading.

Anytime before the ToD act. But would referring to the ToD act be understood by many ? I don't think so.

That's why I have just keep to anytime rapture.

 

[Douggg]

Except Douggg doesn't mean 'anytime' like you are taking it to mean. His view doesn't allow for the rapture to be after great tribulation. A valid 'anytime' rapture view would be that the rapture might occur before the trib, during the trib, or even after the trib. Except Doggg's anytime rapture can only occur anytime before the trib.

Anytime before the ToD (Transgression of Desolation) act by the Antichrist.

I am not using the term "trib", because that term means different things to different people. And is also not the basis of my view. The ToD act is the limit to the anytime rapture view window.

The sequence to the ToD act is following Gog/Magog...

The prince who shall come is anointed the King of Israel, thought to be messiah by the Jews, becoming the Antichrist.

The Antichrist, immediately, has the law read to the nation of Israel, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle, of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Beginning the 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

Three years, thereabouts, go by, the world saying peace and safety of the false messianic age.

The Antichrist suddenly, stops the daily sacrifice, goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. The ToD act.
It is called the Trangression of Desolation - because he transgresses the Mt. Sinai covenant, and desolates the temple from worship of the One True God.

God has strangers come and assassinate him for his audacious act. Ezekiel 28:1-10.

God does not let his soul remain in hell, and brings him back to life, a few days later.

The person, no longer the King of Israel thought to be messiah, comes back to life as the beast, to become dictator of the EU. And offers his plan of eternal life for everyone following him.

The false prophet then has the world make a statue image of the beast, and has it placed on the temple mount - the Great Tribulation begins. 1335 days later, Jesus returns to end it.