RACISM? No, it is not.

Mysterium_Fidei · Dec 23, 2005

msgstephen said:
America the land mass or the United States?

The first citizens of the United States were white. The first peoples the Americas? No one knows. There's evidence whites were in the Americas ten thousand years ago along with Blacks etc. etc. I don't think any group can surely claim unbroken attachment to any particular land mass.

rahma · Dec 23, 2005

arunma said:
I'm well aware of that. But Indianx was speaking about the misconception (probably held by Galilean) which suggests that all Africans practiced paganism apart from Western influence. I think you know as well as I: a Western racist can't tell the difference between an Ethiopian Christian and a pagan African.

I would guess it is important to point out that the pagan africans had civilizations and built cities. One doesn't need to be christian to be civilized in africa. There were plenty of non christian civilizations.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CIVAFRCA/CIVAFRCA.HTM

Galilean · Dec 23, 2005

America the land mass or the United States?

The first citizens of the United States were white. The first peoples the Americas? No one knows. There's evidence whites were in the Americas ten thousand years ago along with Blacks etc. etc. I don't think any group can surely claim unbroken attachment to any particular land mass.

'Native' americans came from mongolia and killed off the previous inhabitants.
The 9,300 year old remains of kennewick man showed he was caucasian. There was an entire group of skeletons similar to him, all dating from about the same period. Relatives of modern europeans made the long trek accross the bering land bridge into the americas some 10,000 years ago.
That doesn't mean they were the first people though, before homosapiens were probably pre-human inhabitants which would have been killed off by human migrants.

Theowne · Dec 23, 2005

Galilean said:
Go and walk through a dangerous ghetto and see how
you are treated.

Likewise, years back I could be saying to a black man, "walk through any part of this "great, free land" and see how you are treated". What's your point?

Are you really forgetting that this whole whitetoblack racism is not accepted hypocrisy is pretty much the consequence of the history of relations between whites and blacks? I'm not saying it is acceptable for there to be this double standard, but I do find that it is completely understandable why it has come this way and if you want to blame someone, the grandfathers of the country would be a good start.

urnotme · Dec 23, 2005

arunma said:
Actually, before the advent of Islam, Africans had a well established church, and they produced many prominent church leaders who were highly advanced in Christianity.

Everything that you have done for them? Let us dismiss everything else you have mentioned for the moment, and only discuss electricity. Please tell me why electricity is credited to the entire body of white humans, rather than Americans?

You seem to go to great lengths to create a division between whites and non-whites, which is why I regularly say that you have no business being a Christian. I certainly hope that I will be able to explain to you why I constantly harass you for your racist views, even if you ultimately disagree with my motivations.

Who descovered it, not that that matters but weren't white people or people of the caucasion race (since white has almost become a rasist term) using it before other races?

urnotme · Dec 23, 2005

anglicancrusader said:

I think Leif Erickson, son of Erik the Red came over here in about 1000 AD. I don't know if their were natives here at that time or not. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/nda/nda18.htm

urnotme · Dec 23, 2005

anglicancrusader said:

Aparentlly europeans may heve colonized america in 28,000 BC. http://www.newnation.org/NNN-kennewick-man.html

I wonder how they decided they were european. Even so the people who aree called american indians were supposed to come from asia 30,000 years ago. http://archive.1september.ru/eng/2001/44/1.htm Most experts believe the first Indian ancestors arrived 30,000 or more years ago.
They probably came from Asia. It is supposed that the early Indians crossed into Alaska at what is now the narrow channel of open sea called the Bering Strait.
Inless you ask a Morman then they came from Isreal. The mosr accepted explanation is they came from asia during one of the ice ages. The explanation accepted by most anthropologists today is that whether by land bridge or by boat, Asian tribes moved into what is now Alaska, Canada, and the United States. Even DNA tests seem to support this idea.

This site says he got here 8,000 years ago and he looked like captain Pickard. http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/hive/Kennewic.htm

corvus_corax · Dec 23, 2005

Galilean said:
What about for everything we've done for them?

Everything we have done for them?
Everything we have done for them?

You patronizing, condescending.....
ARGH! There are no words that I can use on this forum to describe your statement without violating forums rules or ending up with a string of asterisks in my post.
You sir, have made a blatantly racist statement.

Look at what we have done for them indeed!

Galilean said:
Electricity, running water, democracy and human rights,
all of their transport, all of their every day conveniances.
How can anyone live in america or any western nations and claim
to hate whites, I'd like to see them live in a world where none
of this existed.

E=MC2 (but then again, you probably dont see Jews as "them", do you?), relativity (thanks to this our GPS systems can operate accurately), the large preservation of many of the sciences we take for granted during the dark ages, democracy (the Sabarcae and certain buddhist sects), human rights (ancient Persia for example...heck the contents of the Cyrus cylinder are apparently engraved over the UN headquarters).
Your patronization of non-caucasians is disgusting.
Of course Im sure that you think (according to your own statements) that if "we" werent here to coddle "them" and lead "them" to enlightenment, then "they" would all still be in the stone age, wouldnt "they"?

Galilean said:
That is just a racist generalisation, 'white' people live in a
all kinds of situations. And non-whites live in the suburbs as well.

Before you talk about "racist generalizations", take a look at your "racist specific" statements

Galilean said:
No it is not. Go and walk through a dangerous ghetto and see how
you are treated.

Which one?
A ghetto predominated by blacks?
Or one predominated by hispanics?
Or one predominated by orientals?
Or maybe even one predominated by (believe it or not Ivory-Tower-boy) whites?
It isnt necessarily race that makes such areas dangerous.
It's "us vs them" and often in (for example) black-predominant ghettos, well-to-do-blacks are just as "in danger" as whites.
And Im not just talking abstractly, Ive seen it.

BTW, nice job picking out one point from my post and blatantly ignoring the rest

EDIT- mark Dec 23rd on your calendars. This is the day that arunma and I appeared to agreed on something (although I was a bit more of a "screaming mimi" than arunma )

urnotme · Dec 24, 2005

Galilean said:
'Native' americans came from mongolia and killed off the previous inhabitants.
The 9,300 year old remains of kennewick man showed he was caucasian. There was an entire group of skeletons similar to him, all dating from about the same period. Relatives of modern europeans made the long trek accross the bering land bridge into the americas some 10,000 years ago.
That doesn't mean they were the first people though, before homosapiens were probably pre-human inhabitants which would have been killed off by human migrants.

There's evidence they came from different continents. http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news136.htm
Kennewick and some other recent finds suggest multiple migrations from different points of origin. Other ancient remains, including some more than 11,000 years old, show affinities with Australian aborigines, African bushmen, Polynesians, medieval Scandinavians and Ainu from northern Japan, as well as central, southern and southeast Asian. http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-07/2005-07-18-voa23.cfm?CFID=10460915&CFTOKEN=16182123

Looks just like Patrick Stewart doesn't it? You can make it look like anybody you want. There is contraversy over whether it looks europrean or not. Douglas Owsley is a forensic anthropologist. "It does not show features we see in European populations, it does not show features we see in North American Indian populations. It looks to me more like the features we see in groups from Asia."

urnotme · Dec 24, 2005

This one looks more like Ual Brennner. http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue187/labnotes.html

DNA tests on the ancient skeleton have so far proved unsuccessful, but measurements of key skeletal features indicate that Kennewick Man was probably not European, but may well be a relative of eastern Russians and/or the Ainu people of Japan. These folks are a hairy, pale-skinned, roughly Caucasian hunter-gatherer-trader society who once controlled and fiercely defended the islands of Japan,

Galilean · Dec 24, 2005

Looks just like Patrick Stewart doesn't it? You can make it look like anybody you want. There is contraversy over whether it looks europrean or not. Douglas Owsley is a forensic anthropologist. "It does not show features we see in European populations, it does not show features we see in North American Indian populations. It looks to me more like the features we see in groups from Asia."

The skull looks caucasoid to me (I'll pull up a forensic diagram
of the standard caucasoid skull if you want to) although the
eye sockets look massive and the teeth are a wee bit projected.

Look at what we have done for them indeed!

Yep, it's not hard to miss.

E=MC2 (but then again, you probably dont see Jews as "them", do you?), relativity (thanks to this our GPS systems can operate accurately),

Einstein wasn't the only physicist who knew about relativity and 'E=MC2'.
I think it's kind of unfair all the credit was given to einstein when others knew about these
theories as well, and thats not from taking cues from einstein, many knew about it before
einstein did.

he large preservation of many of the sciences we take for granted during the dark ages,

Come again? Are you reffereing to the arabs, maybe?

democracy

....was an athenian concept.

(the Sabarcae and certain buddhist sects),

Ok, maybe some buddhist sects had democratic ideas, but thats not the reason why we
have democracy in our modern world.

human rights (ancient Persia for example...heck the contents of the Cyrus cylinder are apparently engraved over the UN headquarters).

you mean these guys?
www.joebachelor.net/paint/bust/Persian.jpg

who spoke avestan, close relative of latin and other european languages?

that if "we" werent here to coddle "them" and lead "them" to enlightenment, then "they" would all still be in the stone age, wouldnt "they"?

Depends. Australian aborigines and sub-saharan africans, and native americans would still
be in the stone age.

You seem to have a sore problem with my suggestion that caucasians have made a contribution to the world.
You also seem to have a problem with me using terms like 'we', but you do the exact same thing,
only you talk about evils. So ou can't condemn me for having a supposedly 'us' and 'them' attitude when you do as well, only its 'we' have done nothing but evil to 'them'.

corvus_corax · Dec 24, 2005

Galilean said:
Yep, it's not hard to miss.

Your blatant "caucasians have contributed but no one else has" attitude is noted
Which, of course, is an exagerration on my part, but it drives home the point

Galilean said:
Einstein wasn't the only physicist who knew about relativity and 'E=MC2'.
I think it's kind of unfair all the credit was given to einstein when others knew about these theories as well, and thats not from taking cues from einstein, many knew about it before einstein did.

Cmon, say it.
Come on out and say it "All the credit was given to einstein when caucasians already knew about it".
Sources please.
Besides, E=MC2 was first published in 1905, September, by Einstein.
Whoever else knew about it is irrelevant to this discussion. He wrote it, he published it, he gets credit for it.
Of course, racists will continue to state that "Caucasians knew about it as well, and its unfair that Einstein gets credit for it, despite the fact that he was the one who had it published....blah blah blah"

Galilean said:
Come again? Are you reffereing to the arabs, maybe?

Muslims more specifically
"Arab" is to widespread a word to denote any comment here, except that it is a word often wrongly used by racists when referring to those of Islamic faith and Middle eastern background

Galilean said:
....was an athenian concept.

But not exclusively so

Galilean said:
Ok, maybe some buddhist sects had democratic ideas, but thats not the reason why we
have democracy in our modern world.

Gee, that's big of you

Galilean said:
you mean these guys?
www.joebachelor.net/paint/bust/Persian.jpg

who spoke avestan, close relative of latin and other european languages?

Yeah, avestan is an INDO EUROPEAN language
Good try to catch me in a lame trap

Galilean said:
Depends. Australian aborigines and sub-saharan africans, and native americans would still
be in the stone age.

Really?
Care to actually guarantee that absolute assertion?
Any aborigines, africans or native americans care to comment on this?
Probably not, as most of them are probably tired of debating racist threads

Galilean said:
You seem to have a sore problem with my suggestion that caucasians have made a contribution to the world.

No, that's just you reading far too much into my posts
Caucasians have made contributions to the world
That is obvious.
But you seem to be saying that they have made the only meaningful contributions to the world, and by saying such, state that caucasians have some inherent "superior" ability to do such
BTW, you have STILL continued to ignore the points of my previous post

Galilean said:
You also seem to have a problem with me using terms like 'we', but you do the exact same thing,

In the context that you have used "we" and "they", no I havent

Galilean said:
only you talk about evils. So ou can't condemn me for having a supposedly 'us' and 'them' attitude when you do as well, only its 'we' have done nothing but evil to 'them'.

Bull.
Now you are accusing me of "white oppression" mentality?
Let me make this clear for you, since you seem to have a hard time reading context- EVERY RACE IS GUILTY, TO ONE DEGREE OR ANOTHER, AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER, OF RACISM.
Just because I brought up orientals and semetics earlier (and their victimization at the hands of caucasians), DONT make the simple-minded mistake of thinking that I hold to the "white man is evil" mentality

And quit twisting my words and misrepresenting them.

urnotme · Dec 24, 2005

arunma said:
Actually, I'm fairly certain that it originated much earlier. I believe it was Saint Boniface who subjected the decorated tree to Christ, whereas it had originally been used in pagan, German rituals.

He is thought to have done that to stop the people from worshiping an oak tree. http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/tree.htm

*Starlight* · Dec 24, 2005

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm replying to the OP...

As far as I know, the Christmas tree isn't used to celebrate any other holidays than Christmas, so I don't see a reason to call it a holiday tree instead of a Christmas tree...

arunma · Dec 24, 2005

Galilean said:
Einstein wasn't the only physicist who knew about relativity and 'E=MC2'.
I think it's kind of unfair all the credit was given to einstein when others knew about these
theories as well, and thats not from taking cues from einstein, many knew about it before
einstein did.

Come back when you've learned some physics (or, if you happen to be an expert in the subject, then please enlighten us). Albert Einstein developed the Special Relativity independant of other experimental results which pointed to it. Only in hindsight can those results (such as electrodynamics and Michaelson-Morley) be tied directly to relativity. In science, it's quite easy to rederive something that has already been proven. So while it may displease you, the fact of the matter is that a Jew discovered Special Relativity before anyone else.

I'm sure that your evidence for the Caucasian Theory of Relativity comes from the same place as your information on the small volume of the African skull.

rahul_sharma · Dec 24, 2005

Don't fight over "Albert Einstein". He was very sure about his base.

Theowne · Dec 24, 2005

Guys, why do you keep feeding Galileans delusions of superiority?

arunma · Dec 24, 2005

Theowne said:
Guys, why do you keep feeding Galileans delusions of superiority?

As long as Galilean speaks to anyone here as a Christian, I intend to make racism an issue. Christians aren't permitted to hold the views that he does.

ebia · Dec 25, 2005

arunma said:
As long as Galilean speaks to anyone here as a Christian, I intend to make racism an issue. Christians aren't permitted to hold the views that he does.

It sounds like a Monty Python sketch in reverse.

If there were any chance of him actually being interested in crucial non-European contributions to civilisation I'd refer him to "The Crest of the Peacock - Non-European Roots of Mathematics", but of course he isn't.

RenewingMyMind · Dec 25, 2005

Romans 12:9

Love must be sincere, hate what is evil, cling to what is good.

We can hate the sin of racism and the ignorant view of some people but we still have to love them as a person. Racism is demonic and it stems from spirits of hate, anger, and envy. It all comes down to judgment of other people. Not one person is anything like another person and we all have our own will and emotions. For myself to compare myself to anyone else is a lost cause because I can't be them and they can't be me.

Often the majority will target the minority for they feel better about themselves and have to put others down to make them feel more secure. It is quite interesting to lets say see a white extremist who is so tough when he is with his friends but then to put the shoe on the other foot and suddenly their not so tough.

Racism will never end because the devil uses it to pit others against each other and all he cares about is violence and hate because it leads to murder and he steals souls from God.

It is pretty obvious that in order to hate someone else you have to hate yourself first.

Peace.

RACISM? No, it is not.

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