quick story then a question...

[AtheistShawn]

On to my little story.
Me and my roomate when out for a drink...blah blah blah...skip to walking to get tacos.

There are people on the cornor...christians...talking over a loud speaker...about Jesus. And...this is important....asking for crowd interaction.
As the guy is "discussing" something with someone in the crowd about free will and eternal hell fire...I say (not yelling, just loud) If god gives free will, and takes life, he's an indian giver. (ok...so maybe i was stiring the pot a bit)

Just then, one of (what I thought was another crowd member, but really a christian groupy in disguise) approached me and began discusion.

Without going into to much detail about it, we bantered back an forth about me going to hell, and not believing in god and all that. All the while she kept walking herself in circles about what she was saying. Ignorance is ok....but sin is not....even though you can be ignorant of your 'sin'....fun times.

So looking for a means of ending things, I asked if she drove a car here tonight. She replied yes, so I told her she was killing people and things, by emiting those fumes, and that she had "free will" to drive or ride a bike. And asked if she ever repented for that sin. She said meekly..."well, no" And lost herself and started to ramble scripture.

So she ran in circles about it being all about faith, then when I talked about being a good person (not sinning) She talked mentioned that not sinning, and being ignorant is also ok. Yeeehaww....

So I asked her a question, that caused her to fall silent...and her christian buddies to come 'save her' with the excuse of "I have to go"

I said, "So if I am a good person, and I don't believe in god, am I going to hell"

She said yes.

Then I asked, "If someone is a christian, but sins, are they going to hell"

And she wouldnt give me a straight answer. Because she knew that was check mate.

If she said no, she was contradicting everything she just said.
If she said yes, she was telling me that she...would be going to hell. And so would all her "christian" friends.

 

[ERice2nd]

in oreder to be saved, you must accept the sacrifice of the Christ, after that it is still up to God who goes to hell or not, no one can say for certain they are going to heaven because everyone (only one exception) sins. We can ask forgiveness of those sins and get forgiveness, but we have to be sincere about it.

There is one unpordonable sin, blasphemy of the holy spirit

 

[AtheistShawn]

in oreder to be saved, you must accept the sacrifice of the Christ, after that it is still up to God who goes to hell or not, no one can say for certain they are going to heaven because everyone (only one exception) sins. We can ask forgiveness of those sins and get forgiveness, but we have to be sincere about it.

There is one unpordonable sin, blasphemy of the holy spirit

what if a person was born in an area where he/she never had a chance to learn about christ. and that said person led a good life, and died never even knowing about any religion. would he/she go to hell?

 

[ERice2nd]

God takes into account ignorance. God knows our hearts and minds. It is up to God who is allowed into heaven or not.

 

[AtheistShawn]

God takes into account ignorance. God knows our hearts and minds. It is up to God who is allowed into heaven or not.

okay, same situation as before, but the person grew up with another religion, never once hearing about anything in the bible. where does he/she go?

 

[MidnightCandel777]

Some people are under the impression that christians "Don't sin".
We are still human, no matter what we do. The point is that when we do mess up, we go back to God and ask forgiveness.
However, this is not a license to go out and sin as much as you want. What it does mean is that we are a work in progress, that God isn't done yet.

 

[AtheistShawn]

Some people are under the impression that christians "Don't sin".
We are still human, no matter what we do. The point is that when we do mess up, we go back to God and ask forgiveness.
However, this is not a license to go out and sin as much as you want. What it does mean is that we are a work in progress, that God isn't done yet.

thanks, and not trying to sound rude, but i don't see how that answers my question

 

[Romanseight2005]

 

[Adstar]

What is your question exactly?

It seems the Christian girl who talked with you was not fully knowledgeable in the knowledge of salvation. Often new Christians are very quick to go out and spread the good news before being fully equip with knowledge to do so.

Oh about someone who has never heard about Jesus or God. I place the decision into the hands of the perfect Judge God. But for those who have heard about Jesus and reject the salvation He offers them, they will indeed spend eternity in the lake of fire.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[AtheistShawn]

What is your question exactly?

if a person grows up following another religion, worshiping another god, leads a good life, dies and never hears of anything to do with the bible..... what happens.

i am not sure, but i have heard that you are not suppossed to worship any other gods.

i am new to all this really, and i want to at least take a look at it. it all seems really hard to believe, and i don't want to offend.

 

[Adstar]

if a person grows up following another religion, worshiping another god, leads a good life, dies and never hears of anything to do with the bible..... what happens.

i am not sure, but i have heard that you are not suppossed to worship any other gods.

i am new to all this really, and i want to at least take a look at it. it all seems really hard to believe, and i don't want to offend.

If that person had been introduced to the knowledge of the Messiah Jesus and had rejected Jesus as their Savoir then they would have eternity in the lake of fire.

There is only One who is Good. That is The God of Abraham. God is perfect and cannot have anyone in eternity with Him who is not perfect. Through the atoning death of the Messiah Jesus we who accept Jesus as Messiah will be made perfect to exist with God in eternity. No human being is without sin. All the good things one has done does not eliminate the bad things that one has done. People are not condemned for the good things they have done they are condemned for the evil they have done. Just one sin is enough to warrant eternal separation from God. All people fall short of the perfection of God. We who believe in the Messiah Jesus are not sinless but we are forgiven or sins through belief in Jesus. We do not make it to God by being Good we make it by being forgiven.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Key]

I would like to start off that many people Gave some truly Great Answers! Bless you all.

On to my little story.
Me and my roomate when out for a drink...blah blah blah...skip to walking to get tacos.

There are people on the cornor...christians...talking over a loud speaker...about Jesus. And...this is important....asking for crowd interaction.
As the guy is "discussing" something with someone in the crowd about free will and eternal hell fire...I say (not yelling, just loud) If god gives free will, and takes life, he's an indian giver. (ok...so maybe i was stiring the pot a bit)

Gods allowance to do what we will with the life he has given us, in no way supersedes the fact that this life is a an allowance, and there are no guarantees attached to it. If god had chosen to end our lives at any time, it is his right and authority to do so. All that we have, is by the allowance of God. What we do with what God has allowed us, is our own situation.

Just then, one of (what I thought was another crowd member, but really a christian groupy in disguise) approached me and began discusion.

Without going into to much detail about it, we bantered back an forth about me going to hell, and not believing in god and all that. All the while she kept walking herself in circles about what she was saying. Ignorance is ok....but sin is not....even though you can be ignorant of your 'sin'....fun times.

Ignorance of the Law is not an Excuse for breaking the Law. The defense of Ignorance has not, nor will ever hold up in any courtroom, if Humans will not accept the condition of Ignorance, I do not see why God should asked or expected to make this exception.

So looking for a means of ending things, I asked if she drove a car here tonight. She replied yes, so I told her she was killing people and things, by emiting those fumes, and that she had "free will" to drive or ride a bike. And asked if she ever repented for that sin. She said meekly..."well, no" And lost herself and started to ramble scripture.

This is not correct, the same amount of people would die, if she had or had not driven her Car that night. The fact that emissions destroys the environment, is not a Sin, as I am not Murdering anyone, if we make our own environment unlivable, that is a byproduct of our own stupidity, as well as a lack of technology to provide what has become a necessity of life (Transportation) that is both safe and environmental friendly.

The act of “Killing” means the direct result from my actions, IE: I drive over you with my Car.

The contribution to the slow decline of the ecosystem is not murder, because of all the people that contribute to the effect, as well as in all the way contributions are made, Car, Power Plants, Construction Machines, Airplanes, Etc, even down to the simple transportation of Food, which I might add, if we did not transport food, that would starve most of our nation, which would be a bad thing.

So she ran in circles about it being all about faith, then when I talked about being a good person (not sinning) She talked mentioned that not sinning, and being ignorant is also ok. Yeeehaww....

Ok, first off there is no such thing as a “Good” person, you might be decent by cultural standards, but that is only because the culture does not know all that you are doing, and being decent is far from being sinless, which is the requirement for entrance to Heaven, if not for the Salvation and Forgiveness of Christ, none of us would make it to heaven.

So I asked her a question, that caused her to fall silent...and her christian buddies to come 'save her' with the excuse of "I have to go"

Odd that they could not provide you insight into this dilemma, but then again, sometimes if you are not ready for the discussion, it can catch you off guard, and an answer does not come ready.

I said, "So if I am a good person, and I don't believe in god, am I going to hell"

She said yes.

You mean, if you lived decent life by current cultural standards, Well then yes, You fall short of the Glory of Heaven..

Then I asked, "If someone is a christian, but sins, are they going to hell"

Nope, we are sinners, and we will be sinners to the day we die, we desire to try to walk in the way of Christ, to seek and strive to live as sinless a life as we can, this does not mean, we are inhuman and will not succumb to temptation, as we are just as able to sin as anyone else. The difference is we seek forgiveness for our sins, we realize our sins are wrong, and we strive to prevent ourselves form sinning again, and we do not embrace and revile in our sins, but look at our weakness with remorse.

So, yes, As a Christian, if I stumble on my walk, and sin, I am still going to Heaven.

However, this will and can be twisted, and has been by many, to try and say that this is a free license to sin once you accept Christ, but if it is viewed that way, one would be skeptical if you truly accepted Christ.

And she wouldnt give me a straight answer. Because she knew that was check mate.

No, maybe it was because she Knew or suspected that you would twist her answer, is she said “No” (Which is a very limited and incomplete answer) then you would most likely say “So being a Christian is a Free License to Sin” which it is not.

OR she might have pegged you as an argumentative person to deal with, so she might very well have given you the answer, just not what you wanted to hear, and thus wanted to excuse herself from the discussion as gracefully as possible.

If she said no, she was contradicting everything she just said.
If she said yes, she was telling me that she...would be going to hell. And so would all her "christian" friends.

A Christian that Follows Christ, will not go to Hell, as far as everything the Bible teaches, however, we are not to cocky in our salvation, but humble and thankful for it.

And contradicting what she said, would have required her to say “You can Sin, and Get to Heaven on your own abilities” the whole point of Salvation is to be forgiven for our Sins, which we have, and will commit.

If we could live a sinless life, we would not need salvation.

what if a person was born in an area where he/she never had a chance to learn about christ. and that said person led a good life, and died never even knowing about any religion. would he/she go to hell?

By the invisible qualities of life, God makes himself known, to refuse the existence of the Author of life, I would have to say, would not offer anyone salvation, however, this becomes a special case as to the necessity of receiving Christ.

God in his wisdom, I would expect would know, if you were exposed to the salvation of His son, if you would or would not have accepted it. The end result of where those people that have had no contact with the Christians or the Good News, is not our place to Judge, But God is Just and I for one have faith in Him that none deserving shall perish.

I trust him with my own soul, I have faith that I can trust him with the soul of everyone, God is Just, and none shall “fall though the cracks”.

okay, same situation as before, but the person grew up with another religion, never once hearing about anything in the bible. where does he/she go?

Same answer as above.

I hope I have provided you answers to your questions.

God Bless

Key

 

[ebia]

if a person grows up following another religion, worshiping another god, leads a good life, dies and never hears of anything to do with the bible..... what happens.

i am not sure, but i have heard that you are not suppossed to worship any other gods.

i am new to all this really, and i want to at least take a look at it. it all seems really hard to believe, and i don't want to offend.

God hasn't specifically told us.

He has told us that any of us are only saved by his grace.

He has told us that he wants to save us all.

 

[jak]

Hi Atheistshawn,
I feel sorry for the poor girl!


Anyhow, to answer your question, God is the judge, and not us. The bit about "not worshipping other gods' was said to the israelites, who did have a special revelation of God as a person who loved and was concerned about them and others. To them God did say not to try to make Him easier to handle by turning him into an animal/ man/ bird/ whatever.


To others, who may have grown up worshipping God in those forms, again, we really don't know how God will judge them. We only know it makes sense for us to tell people that God is perhaps more approachable than they think Him, and a caring, loving person, rather than an inanimate force/ object of fear.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I said, "So if I am a good person, and I don't believe in god, am I going to hell"

Well, I'd say that you pwned a low lvl n00b there(probably are bard, as well). But I am a level 35 paladin, so I'm a little tougher.

Here is the Gospel.

Are you a good person? By human standards, probably. We Christians believe in a perfect, just, and holy God. So does God think you and I are good people? Well, He gave us a standard to know. You can take this little quiz and know. You don't have to share your score:

1) Have you ever lied? If so what does that make you? Well, someone who lies is a liar. Some people say "Well that was a long time ago". Christians believe that time does not erase the guilt of sin(as it says in the Bible), so it remains.

2) Have you ever stolen anything(mp3s, anyone)? (value is irrelevant)? If you have, what does that make you? (Hint: a thief)

3) Have you ever taken the Lord's name in vain? The Bible calls that blasphemy.

4) Have you ever looked at a woman with lust? Jesus said that if you even look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery with her in your heart.

So let's stop there. If you have committed all these sins (as I have) that makes you a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart, and we've only looked at four of the Ten Commandments. This is how God sees me, and maybe you.

So in God's eyes none of us are good people. That is why the Bible says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

The Bible says that the punishment for sin is death and eternal suffering in Hell (second death). So that's why you don't have to be a 'bad person' by our standards. If you break the Law you only need to break one law to have the cops after you. You don't have to break every law.

But here's the good news (that's why we call it the Good News). You don't have to suffer eternally. You do not have to face judgement. Jesus, who lived a clean and sinless life, died on the Cross at Calvary. Like a father who pays his son's speeding ticket, Jesus died the first death on the Cross so you don't have to suffer the second one (eternity in Hell). All you have to do is accept Him as your Lord and Savior. It's kind of like a party: The invitation has already been sent and received, you just need to show up.

So as one sinner to another I want to plead with you. Submit to Christ. Accept His sacrifice. I don't relish the idea of you sufferin in Hell any more than you do.

 

[dvd_holc]

In Romans, Paul affrims that there is one God who judges all of humanity. Likewise, the path of salvation who have not received the words of God through the covenantly people (inward Jews) is still through God. And Paul attributes the same path of salvation by the evidence of God through patient continue of doing good display the working of God's purpose in their heart.

A problem is that people fail in is that the average person would say they are a good person and would attribute their good decisions as being sufficate to validate or justify being a good person. However, the Christian believers that a good person is a person who is purely good. Any evil action renders the entire person evil. Every judge in the justice system judges a person if they have done 1 thing wrong according to the law.

Do you expect to go before a judge for going 50 mph over the speed limit and say you know I gave $200 to a charity, should I be let go because I am good? The judge will always say that it is because you broke the law here that you pay this fine.

Now, God has set salvation through a free gift to establish justice of a second chance. God has not decided to call down justice on every sin at the time of the sin. For all sin, the time of judgment is on that Day. So right now there is moments of turning back. God is hurt and cries tires for every wrong choice that we make, but He did not leave us to our own device for salvation. God actually came in and live among us. He learned to walk, talk, teach, and die as a human to demonstrate how to live faithful to His purpose. Through the death, Jesus brought attonement to eternal life. Why? Because the universe was made that way. Every day you live on killing something so that you can eat it which brings sustainance to your life...So then, now what you have to do is live by the faith that God has paid the price for us, live a commited life for Him, and pursue it for the rest of your life. And the divine just is on the tips of everyone's tongue though they don't know how to articulate it. You say if I am good why should I be punished...you have a idea of justice. Where did that come from? Is it a natural order of exist? Does it come back to how the universe is? God has shown us who God is, and everything we do is evidence of our faith to God or the lack of it. It is more important what we do now than what will happen. God is a creator God who is working to complete His creation of humanity which involves individuals and the community.

 

[MikeMcK]

Then I asked, "If someone is a christian, but sins, are they going to hell"

And she wouldnt give me a straight answer. Because she knew that was check mate.

Checkmate? More like some unlucky pitcher serving up a nice fastball right over the plate to Ryan Howard.

Perhaps she is a new Christian or maybe she just hasn't been discipled well.

It's an easy question.

Christians sin. We sin because we're sinners, just like non-Christians.

The difference is that, non-Christians serve sin. We do everything we can to avoid sin.

There's a world of difference between living a lifestyle of
unrepentant sin and sinning as a matter of a momentary moral lapse.

We sin and repent immediately of that sin and ask God to teach us not to do it again.

Paul writes about this in some detail in Romans 6-7.

Take a few minutes and read those two chapters and you'll understand the Christian teaching on this matter a little better.

 

[AtheistShawn]

I hope I have provided you answers to your questions.

God Bless

Key

thank you. and thank everyone else who replied.

i hope i did not come off rude with my story/questions.

 

[KarateCowboy]

thank you. and thank everyone else who replied.

i hope i did not come off rude with my story/questions.

Naw. A little cocky, but that just shows you've got spirit.

 

[£amb]

if a person grows up following another religion, worshiping another god, leads a good life, dies and never hears of anything to do with the bible..... what happens.

quote]

I always wondered about this kind of question. Does someone truly grow up in another religion and not know about other religions? I am a christian, but I know a bit of other religions around the world. If someone is raised Buddha, wouldn't they be taught about other religions to be prepared for what's "out there"?

I worked in a Preschool at my church and had a girl in my class who's parents were from India. They were both very deep into Hinduism, but they were quite aware of christianity. I can't remember the full story, but they met with some missionaries, and heard more about christianity. They ended up giving their lives to God and became missionaries themselves.

What's the point of this? I don't know. Sometimes I think out loud over the keyboard... By the way, welcome to the forums.