Quick Question

[StephanStrategy]

This is based on some reading in another thread.

If Christ died for "the universe" then does it makes sense that God would make the new heavens and new earth if this earth was already "redeemed" by Christ's death?

On the one hand, we have the example of our bodies being sown corruptible and being raised incorruptible. But on the other, the "earth" nor the "universe" ever sinned but rather they were cursed because of our sin (or Adam's and consequently our continued sin).

My understand is that Christ came to redeem His own and that the earth and heavens are remade because God's dwelling place will be with mankind. The old heavens and earth that are tainted by our sin are remade (or recreated?).

So in the end, Christ did not redeem the universe or make it redeemable because it will be remade at the consummation of the kingdom.

Clear as mud?

Mike

 

[DeaconDean]

This is based on some reading in another thread.

If Christ died for "the universe" then does it makes sense that God would make the new heavens and new earth if this earth was already "redeemed" by Christ's death?

On the one hand, we have the example of our bodies being sown corruptible and being raised incorruptible. But on the other, the "earth" nor the "universe" ever sinned but rather they were cursed because of our sin (or Adam's and consequently our continued sin).

My understand is that Christ came to redeem His own and that the earth and heavens are remade because God's dwelling place will be with mankind. The old heavens and earth that are tainted by our sin are remade (or recreated?).

So in the end, Christ did not redeem the universe or make it redeemable because it will be remade at the consummation of the kingdom.

Clear as mud?

Mike

Your over-complicating the matter.

This can be related to the matter of total depravity.

When we become "born-again," we are baptized into Christ, His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom. 6:3-4)

We are from then on "new creations, new creatures."

On resurrection day, we shall be given a "glorious" new body, we shall not keep our "old" one. (cf. 1 John 3:2)

Since our nature is "tainted" with sin, even after salvation, so is this world.

"...cursed is the ground for thy sake" -Gen. 3:17 (KJV)

So God has to create for us a new one. (Rev. 21:1)

The pattern has been set, a new glorified body for us, a new glorified heaven and earth.

Jesus came to redeem mankind, not the kosmoV (world/earth).

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[heymikey80]

If Christ died for "the universe" then does it makes sense that God would make the new heavens and new earth if this earth was already "redeemed" by Christ's death?

Now that's a good question.

An issue has to be confronted.

Every redemption involves a redemption value.

The issue is that redemption involves assessment of value, and then taking what's vindicated by the assessment, and remaking what's needed to support it.

(You can see why it's crucially important though to begin where Reformed theology begins though: at the point where we have no intrinsic value. If we don't start there, the person we're teaching quickly drives into the legalistic ditch.)

Jesus said he's come to save the world, to redeem the world, and to remake the world. Jesus gains the right of assessment (judgment) by being shown to be rightful King of the world.

But redemption of the world is not creation universalism. If it were, we'd all be saved, right? I mean each of us is created. No, redemption actually means what's valuable in this world will be saved, and what's not will be tossed like garbage and recreated for what's valued.

And what's valued, here? What's valuable to God?

 

[brothersean]

This is based on some reading in another thread.

If Christ died for "the universe" then does it makes sense that God would make the new heavens and new earth if this earth was already "redeemed" by Christ's death?

On the one hand, we have the example of our bodies being sown corruptible and being raised incorruptible. But on the other, the "earth" nor the "universe" ever sinned but rather they were cursed because of our sin (or Adam's and consequently our continued sin).

My understand is that Christ came to redeem His own and that the earth and heavens are remade because God's dwelling place will be with mankind. The old heavens and earth that are tainted by our sin are remade (or recreated?).

So in the end, Christ did not redeem the universe or make it redeemable because it will be remade at the consummation of the kingdom.

Clear as mud?

Mike

I've heard of a group of Christians called preterists that believe that the "end time" events have already passed and that the book of revelation's prophecies were symbolic and had already occured.