Quia subscription to Book of Concord

[BigNorsk]

Quia subscription to Book of Concord.
The thread asking who has read the Book of Concord made me wonder about the quia subscription to it claimed by several synods.

1. Is the quia subscription a requirement of all members, or just clergy?

2. At what time or rite if ever would one confess their quia subscription, or is it assumed of members or clergy without a public confession?

3. Are members or clergy required to at least read the Book of Concord before confessing a quia subscription? If not, is there some other requirement, maybe confirmation or introductory classes?

I was just wondering how people could be said to maintain a quia subscription if they've never so much as read the Book of Concord. And so am asking for some clarification.

I'd really appreciate it if the thread didn't turn into a quia vs quantenus thread. Thanks.

Marv

 

[Jim47]

My answers in blue (answering for myself as a WELS member)

Quia subscription to Book of Concord.
The thread asking who has read the Book of Concord made me wonder about the quia subscription to it claimed by several synods.

1. Is the quia subscription a requirement of all members, or just clergy? You would be sureprised to find out how many WELS members even have heard of or seen a BoC, not that many I'm sure. Clergy of course have a thourough training in the BoC, but more importantly of scripture, which will always hold more power then anything written by man.

For anyone wanting to answer to my reply with scorn, be careful

2. At what time or rite if ever would one confess their quia subscription, or is it assumed of members or clergy without a public confession? I'll pass on this question and let Preacherswife answer it as her hubby is WELS clergy

3. Are members or clergy required to at least read the Book of Concord before confessing a quia subscription? If not, is there some other requirement, maybe confirmation or introductory classes? Our communicant members go through sound teaching in scripture and Lutheran doctrine and beliefs. The BoC is not taught in whole.

 

[filosofer]

In the past,this was somewhat inconsistent, but now quia subscription is confessed by the pastor at Ordination/Installation within the AALC. I installed two pastors recently, June 1 and June 15, and ordained another July 27.

 

[DaRev]

My LSB Agenda is packed in a box some 120 miles away at the moment, but I believe there is a statement in the Rite for new members that says something along the lines of believing and accepting the Canonical books of Scripture and upholding the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church. The exact wording I can't recall at the moment.

But there is something to consider here. In the LCMS, only commissioned ministers and congregations are members of Synod. As members, both ministers and congregations (as spelled out in their constitutions) must hold a full subscription to the Book of Concord. In most of the congregations I know, members are required to agree with the constitution of the congregation to be a member, which includes subscription to the Confessions. So, I guess indirectly it is required.

It's sad that more pastors do not teach the Confessions. I intend to begin a study of the BoC this fall at my new call.

 

[filosofer]

It's sad that more pastors do not teach the Confessions. I intend to begin a study of the BoC this fall at my new call.

I agree it is sad, but...

Cantankerous old cuss that I am... I suggest teaching the books of the Bible, with emphasis on those key doctrines, rather than the BoC first. Then, when you have people question what the Lutheran position is on such-and-such a topic, you can refer to the BoC, and say: "That's what we have been studying in Bible class!"

Of course, this takes some planning to insure that key Biblical texts are studied. I have found that teaching Matthew and Ephesians provides more than enough material to get it all. But over the past 25 years I found this approach brings great reward, and people discover that they confess the faith as Lutherans because they have studied the Bible. Then people explore the BoC because of what they have studied.

Oh, well, see my sig...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My LSB Agenda is packed in a box some 120 miles away at the moment, but I believe there is a statement in the Rite for new members that says something along the lines of believing and accepting the Canonical books of Scripture and upholding the Confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran Church. The exact wording I can't recall at the moment.

But there is something to consider here. In the LCMS, only commissioned ministers and congregations are members of Synod. As members, both ministers and congregations (as spelled out in their constitutions) must hold a full subscription to the Book of Concord. In most of the congregations I know, members are required to agree with the constitution of the congregation to be a member, which includes subscription to the Confessions. So, I guess indirectly it is required.

It's sad that more pastors do not teach the Confessions. I intend to begin a study of the BoC this fall at my new call.

You are correct Rev.

The Confirmation rite in LSB, after confessing the Apostles Creed asks "Do you hold all the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures to be the inspired Word of God?"

"Do you confess the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, drawn from the Scriptures, as you have learned to know it from the Small Catechism, to be faithful and true?"

There is no mention of the BOC or the "Confessions", other than the Apostles Creed, Scripture, and the Small Catechism.

The Confessions i.e. BOC 1580 is specifically mentioned in our Constitution. Our members only sign (subscribe). to the constitution after they are 18 years old, and then only if they wish to become voting members.

This is precicely why I started the thread "Who has read..."
We have many people who have subscribed, but know not to what.

This is why we have strife regarding Communion Practices, the role of Women, Crypto-Calvinist beliefs held by members etc. etc. ad infinitum. Mind you, we all understand these things after we have been through confirmation instruction, but at that age we are told stuff that does not seem relevent to us. Then we grow up and forget at least half of what we learned (or choose to ignore it).

Then we have "Programs" like Ablaize that seem to take us farther away from doctrine and our confessional heritage and obligation.

I'm frustrated.

Mark

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

It's sad that more pastors do not teach the Confessions. I intend to begin a study of the BoC this fall at my new call.

I agree. I hope that, if God should carry me through to ordination, that I can begin and effective, weekly study on the confessions.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Just a point of interest; I've met a couple of Moravians (Laymen) who seemed to have a better grasp of the AC than most lay Lutherans.

 

[DaRev]

I agree it is sad, but...

Cantankerous old cuss that I am... I suggest teaching the books of the Bible, with emphasis on those key doctrines, rather than the BoC first. Then, when you have people question what the Lutheran position is on such-and-such a topic, you can refer to the BoC, and say: "That's what we have been studying in Bible class!"

Of course, this takes some planning to insure that key Biblical texts are studied. I have found that teaching Matthew and Ephesians provides more than enough material to get it all. But over the past 25 years I found this approach brings great reward, and people discover that they confess the faith as Lutherans because they have studied the Bible. Then people explore the BoC because of what they have studied.

Oh, well, see my sig...

Well, obviously any study of the BoC would have to be tied with a study of Scripture. To do otherwise would be pointless.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The Confirmation rite in LSB, after confessing the Apostles Creed asks "Do you hold all the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures to be the inspired Word of God?"

"Do you confess the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, drawn from the Scriptures, as you have learned to know it from the Small Catechism, to be faithful and true?"

There is no mention of the BOC or the "Confessions", other than the Apostles Creed, Scripture, and the Small Catechism.

I think this was the language used at my Confirmation last September....

The point was my agreement with the Small Catechism (which is about 8 pages long). And I was asked if I believe it to be "faithful and true" - not if I considered it to be norma normans or even norma normata, whether the Book of Concord is equal and on a par with Scripture or rather the correct disposition of such.




.

 

[Jim47]

I think it is sad that people put much emphisis on reading the BoC and fail to study God's word. Even in my bible class when we were studying the BoC most of the emphisis was on scripture. The Lutheran confessions as I call them were given to eliminate all the error so commonaly taught in many churches today, but when one is brought up in a confessional Lutheran church and faithfully attend, the possibility of error is much less, but I find that for those who attend weekly bible class even more so.

God draws us closer to Him through His word. His word alone has power to create faith and to save. The Lutheran confessions will always have their place, but if one deprives themself of God's word, they are depriving themselves of the spiritual nurisment needed to keep them strong in faith.

We all go through much temptation and suffer many woes in this life. I can safely say that my last couple years have been pretty tuff. I have lost many friends who were taken to heaven, friends that I loved dearly, and I have also had to witness many who have suffered grievious health issues and suffered other trials as well. I know that my faith would have been lost in the woes of this life if it were not for the daily comfort and strength I get from scripture, and from hearing it preached at every service, and of course recieving of the sacrament of Holy Communion.

My hope is that when I reach heaven I will sit at Jesus feet where He will teach me from scripture and explain all those things which I do not yet understand clearly, especially from the OT.

 

[Till]

Thank you for this post and the testimony, Jim.

I do not know how to give reps. So this is it: reps for Jim.

 

[porterross]

In an idealistic sense you're right, Jim, but our doctrine as explained in the BOC is absolutely necessary when you think about how many incorrect interpretations there are of Scripture. Because so many people are so easily misled by those who have derived their own idea of what the Bible says and how it should applied, without orthodox consistency, anything goes as we witness everyday in so many false teachings.