simchat_torah
Got Torah?
- Feb 23, 2003
- 7,345
- 433
- 47
- Faith
- Judaism
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Yes, but Ekklesia is not the same word as Synagogue in Greek. Two different words my friend
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Yes, but Ekklesia is not the same word as Synagogue in Greek. Two different words my friendWe may use the word "church" in English. However, the concept is still Ekklesia.
Shalom Wags,
Thank you for your participation!
About salvation in Jesus, I still don't get it. Before Jesus, Jews had access to heaven. But now they don't unless they believe in Jesus? How is that not a change in Hashem's plans?
About that, allow me to explain: The idea of milk and meat mixed together is that you should not use for death (in this case, cooking) what has been given for life (milk).
However, Judaism does make a difference between mitzvot d'oraitah (that which Hashem instructed), mitzvot d'rabanan (that which the sages agreed upon) and halakhah (the way to perform the mitzvot). And trust me, I'm even generalizing. Sometimes I get the feeling that Messianics put them all in the same bag and claim that the sages added to the written text of the Torah. However, the New Testament also interprets the Torah. Wouldn't that be an addition? If not, then why is the Talmud considered an addition? And what of the Neviim and Ketuvim? Wouldn't it be a double standard to single out the Talmud and say it is changing the Torah?
And about legalism, what makes something a legalistic practice? I would say that defining that thing as a matter of life and death, of being good or wicked, of going to gan eden or going to hell. But Judaism never said such thing about kashrut. Yes, the sages tell us to avoid poultry and milk. But no Jew is considered to be in a lower standing before his shül just because he ate a chicken cheeseburger. In fact, no matter what sin he may have committed (even if he's walked into a church, which in Judaism is one the greatest sins a Jew can commit), he can still be a ba'al tefillah, he counts for minyan, he can do aliyah and no-one is allowed by Jewish law to embarrass him because of his behavior.
You know how I would define Judaism?
Everyone has choices to make. Judaism is having the millennia-old experience of our sages to help us make the right choices.
Kol tov,
Fremen
Except that it really does not matter what word is used. Messianic congregations call their places of worship synagogues. We are still not allowed to enter those either, even if they do not call it a 'church'.
Agreed, and I would assume we are also not
able to enter a Hindu temple for the same
reason- I don't think this would be a ban only
on churches/messianic synagogues, although
these are most likely what a Jew is going
to come into contact with.
So Christians should not feel singled out....
Of course! It has nothing to do with being Christian, per se. Simply avodah zarah.Agreed, and I would assume we are also not
able to enter a Hindu temple for the same
reason- I don't think this would be a ban only
on churches/messianic synagogues, although
these are most likely what a Jew is going
to come into contact with.
So Christians should not feel singled out....
I was raised a Reform Jew and never heard that. In fact, my parents allowed me to go to churches with friends when I spent the night with them and I was allowed to go Christmas carolling with my Camp Fire Girls group and we had Easter egg hunts.I too, can confirm what everyone else said. Halakha certainly does forbid a Jew from entering a church as it is considered a place of avodah zerah. If Conservative or Reform Jews do not hold to this, I don't know. I'm Orthodox so I can't speak for them.
Actually, no.
The word that is typically translated as "church" comes from the Greek word Ekklesia (holy gathering). Synagogue comes form the Greek Sinagoguae (sp? I guess it doesn't matter as it is a transliteration). The words Church and Synagogue are derived from wholly different words in the Greek.
As for the origin of the English word Church, that is different. It comes from the German word Kirke, from the name of the sun deity.
-Yafet
We may use the word "church" in English. However, the concept is still Ekklesia. You will find that in other languages, Christians use words which resemble that, such as Iglesia in Spanish. A rose by any other name still smells as sweet. If Christians called it a CAVE, it would still be Ekklesia in the scriptures.
So RebbeCohen's point still stands. Ekklesia and Synogogue both mean assembly.
I find it strange that a greek word was adopted for the house of prayer. Why not knesset? Oh well...
That is interesting about the meaning of the words synagogue and the origin of the word "church". I had not heard those things before. I do know that the word in the Bible that is translated as church is ekklesia as was pointed out and it means the assembly of the called out ones. It is not the same as a synagogue. The church is not a building or an organization. It is the Body of Christ, a group of people who are filled with Christ as their life. It is a living organism with Christ as the head, not a building or an organization or a synagogue.Er... actually guys, with all due respect, this is not correct.
First of all, church does not come from ekklesia. The Spanish word for church, Iglesia, does. But church comes from Kirsh. In Greek mythology, Kirke was the daughter of Helios, the sun god. Her symbol was a circle. In fact, the words kirk and circle both have the same root (kirk, connected to such goddess). In Greek mythology, sun worship of Helios and Kirke was conducted in a round-shaped place called KIRSH. Church comes from that word.
As for church and synagogue meaning the same thing (despite their etimology), I beg to differ. A synagogue has a three-fold definition of what it's supposed to be: a Beit Knesset (house of gathering), yes. And mind you, gathering not only for the purpose of performing a religious service. A Beit Tefillah, that is, a house of prayer - a place where a minyan can meet. And, most important of all, a Beit Midrash, which is a house where one studies Torah. Of all these, the most important mission of a synagogue is to be a house of Torah study. Torah study is the most imporant aspect of Jewish faith. A church doesn't have exactly the same objectives.
But anyway, even if the objectives were similar, the halakhah forbids us because of the worship of a Triune G-d, which is something Judaism strictly forbids. Not because the church has different functions and roles.
And besides, why the surprise? I have several protestant friends who would NEVER enter a Catholic church or a mosque. So this isn't unheard of. And again, I'm not saying I agree. Halakhah is not something I decide for myself. I simply have the choice of following or not.
Gute morgen,
Fremen
This is probably one of the main reasons why most Jews who end up as MJs are not those from observant (Orthodox) homes.I was raised a Reform Jew and never heard that. In fact, my parents allowed me to go to churches with friends when I spent the night with them and I was allowed to go Christmas carolling with my Camp Fire Girls group and we had Easter egg hunts.
But, I do remember when I was 5 years old singing the song "Jesus loves me" because I had learned it at the Christian Kindergarten I went to (there were no public school kindergartens there at that time, and I think that church one was the only one around) and my mom told me that "we don't sing that song".
I was raised a Reform Jew and never heard that. In fact, my parents allowed me to go to churches with friends when I spent the night with them and I was allowed to go Christmas carolling with my Camp Fire Girls group and we had Easter egg hunts.
But, I do remember when I was 5 years old singing the song "Jesus loves me" because I had learned it at the Christian Kindergarten I went to (there were no public school kindergartens there at that time, and I think that church one was the only one around) and my mom told me that "we don't sing that song".
I don't know. Because I think we were fairly observant for Reform Jews. I went to and later worked at Jewish daycamps, I was in two Jewish youth groups as a teenager - a Reform Jewish one and B'nai B'rith and I was very active in both. We were quite active in the Jewish community.This is probably one of the main reasons why most Jews who end up as MJs are not those from observant homes.
I look at the being able to participate in Christmas and Easter stuff and I see that what I participated in was all of the pagan practices. None of it had anything to do with Christ. I don't celebrate Christmas and Easter now, nor did we when I was a child other than Santa and the Easter Bunny . So I would not say those things are why I am a Christian now since those are things I don't do.And THAT could be one of the reasons why halakhah is against it. An Orthodox Jew could look at the situation and say that you nowadays are a Christian exactly because your family allowed this. Assimilation is considered Judaism's #1 enemy. Again, I'm not saying *I* think this way, I'm only stating what would probably be said of your case.
Fremen
I don't know. Because I think we were fairly observant for Reform Jews. I went to and later worked at Jewish daycamps, I was in two Jewish youth groups as a teenager - a Reform Jewish one and B'nai B'rith and I was very active in both. We were quite active in the Jewish community.
I look at the being able to participate in Christmas and Easter stuff and I see that what I participated in was all of the pagan practices. None of it had anything to do with Christ. I don't celebrate Christmas and Easter now, nor did we when I was a child other than Santa and the Easter Bunny . So I would not say those things are why I am a Christian now since those are things I don't do.
Yes, the Etymology of the word does not come from Ekklesia. The Etymology comes from Kirke (German). However, in the Greek NT, Ekklesia is translated into English as "church".First of all, church does not come from ekklesia
Agreed!Not the only reason. More as a symptom of a larger problem in relation to halacha.
As for the origin of the English word Church, that is different. It comes from the German word Kirke, from the name of the sun deity.
-Yafet
Yes, the Etymology of the word does not come from Ekklesia. The Etymology comes from Kirke (German). However, in the Greek NT, Ekklesia is translated into English as "church".
Thus, the translation of Ekklesia (as has been used by Christians) is "church".
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?