Questions from a Nazarene

[5stringJeff]

Greetings in the name of Christ!

I have done a little bit of reading about the Orthodox tradition, but I had a couple of questions that I couldn't find answered elsewhere. If anyone would be so kind as to explain a couple of things to a Nazarene, I would greatly appreciate it!

First, I was wondering how Orthodox Christians relate to Mary. Being Protestant, we tend to downplay Mary's role (to our shame - she was a very special person in the grand scheme of God's design). However, I have noticed that many Catholics tend to venerate Mary almost to the point of Godhood. How do you all treat Mary?

Second, do Orthodox Christians pray to saints in similar fashion as Catholics do? If so, would someone please explain the practice to me (a website would be fine)? I've never really understood that practice.

Thanks - I certainly don't want to come across as confrontational, just curious about a branch of Christianity that I know little about.

Jeff

 

[Llauralin]

First, I was wondering how Orthodox Christians relate to Mary. Being Protestant, we tend to downplay Mary's role (to our shame - she was a very special person in the grand scheme of God's design). However, I have noticed that many Catholics tend to venerate Mary almost to the point of Godhood. How do you all treat Mary?

I'm sure you'll get a real answer shortly, but they treat her a little like this:

To the Theotokos, let us run now most fervently,
As sinners and lowly ones,
Let us fall down in repentance,
Crying from the depths of our soul:
Lady, come and help us,
Have compassion upon us;
Hasten now for we are lost
In the host of our errors;
Do not turn your servants away,
For you alone are a hope to us.

Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

(Repeat the above or the Apolytikion of the Church.)

Now and forever and to the ages of ages. Amen.

O Theotokos, we shall never be silent.
Of your mighty acts, all we the unworthy;
Had you not stood to intercede for us
Who would have delivered us,
From the numerous perils?
Who would have preserved us all
Until now with our freedom?
O Lady, we shall not depart from you;
For you always save your servants,
From all tribulation.

 

[Kolya]

Hi gopjeff and welcome to TAW.
You asked for a website. Well I think this one does a pretty good job answering your question. http://aggreen.net/theotokos/face_up_to_mary.html

God Bless you,
Kolya

 

[Akathist]

Greetings in the name of Christ!

I have done a little bit of reading about the Orthodox tradition, but I had a couple of questions that I couldn't find answered elsewhere. If anyone would be so kind as to explain a couple of things to a Nazarene, I would greatly appreciate it!

First, I was wondering how Orthodox Christians relate to Mary. Being Protestant, we tend to downplay Mary's role (to our shame - she was a very special person in the grand scheme of God's design). However, I have noticed that many Catholics tend to venerate Mary almost to the point of Godhood. How do you all treat Mary?

Second, do Orthodox Christians pray to saints in similar fashion as Catholics do? If so, would someone please explain the practice to me (a website would be fine)? I've never really understood that practice.

Thanks - I certainly don't want to come across as confrontational, just curious about a branch of Christianity that I know little about.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I was attending a Nazarene Church just before my conversion to EO, so I undersand where you are coming from.

Here is my advice. Go visit an EO church in your area and see what our services are like and get to talk with the local Priest. These concerns of yours are something that reading about will not fully resolve. They are worked out by the Holy Spirit during the process of getting to know the Eastern Orthodox Faith. This is a very different way of worshiping then the Nazarene, but you will find that the love and devotion to Christ and the Trinity is the same, if not greater (depending upon your individual church etc.)

When I first visited an EO church there were things I found hard to deal with. I didn't ask the Saints to intervene for me in their prayers at first and although I found a love for Mary (who we call Theotokos) relatively easy in comparison, it was hard to ask for her intervening prayers too. But the more I participated in the church services, the more things just started to be worked out within my by the Holy Spirit.

Please visit an EO church as soon as possible.

Xenia

 

[ephraimanesti]

DEAR FRIEND IN CHRIST,

Thank you for the wonderful way you posed your very important questions; i'm sure someone much more knowledgeable than i will provide the answers you are seeking. i would second the suggestion above that you will learn more by attending Liturgy at an Orthodox Church than you ever will reading about it, and Priests have the definitive answers to questions such as yours, while the rest of us just stumble through as best we can.
For me, the Theotokos is indeed "The steadfast protectress of Christians" and has been so in my life for the past 5 years--"A constant intercessor" presenting "our prayers to her Son and Our God." As with so much of Orthodoxy, she must be experienced rather than explained. i'll leave the theological explanations to someone more qualified. All i can say is that she has been an indescribable blessing in my life!
As far as the Veneration of the Saints is concerned, i'm not sure exactly what the Roman Church practices, so i can't really compare. Praying to the Saints--in Veneration, NOT Worship--is based on the fact that the Church is One, whether in heaven or on earth, and those who repose and go on before us are still part of the same Body of Christ as are we living on earth. This is called the "Communion of Saints". This Truth is described thusly by Saint Simeon the New Theologian: "The Holy Trinity, pervading everyone from first to last, from head to foot, binds them all together . . . The saints in each generation, joined to those who have gone before, and filled like them with light, become a golden chain, in which each saint is a separate link, united to the next by faith, works, and love. So in the One God they form a single chain which cannot be broken."
Sooooooooo . . . the practical application of this Truth is that we, as members of the same Body as the Saints, can freely ask them to interceed for us with God. This is, in reality, no different than a Protestant asking his/her Pastor or another brother/sister in Christ to pray for them--with the important difference that the Saints, by living holy and God-pleasing lives, have a great deal of extra leverage (if i can use that term) with God because of their sanctity. Many of the Saints were miracle workers while on earth due to their God-pleasing lives, and that ability has been magnified and refined after their repose due to their being free of worldly distractions. All this is obviously expecially true of the Theotokos as the Mother of God--"More honorable than the Cherabim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim".
The above explanations are obviously inadequate and incomplete and not worthy of your respectful question, and i am sure others will flesh them out and correct there errors. But, again, the suggestion that you attend Liturgy and talk to a Priest is your best bet if you are seriously seeking answers. As our Lord said, "Come and see."

MAY YOU BE BLESSED IN YOUR SEARCH FOR TRUTH,
ephraimanesti

 

[5stringJeff]

Thank you all for your answers. I see that I have a bit more research to do! Not sure when I will get the chance to visit an EO church, since my wife and two kids enjoy our current church (as do I), but I certainly will try to make the effort. Again, thank you!

Jeff

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Orthodox Churches often have services during the week, so you could always go to Saturday vespers and not miss Sunday Worship at your church.

At any rate, it may be best to address your questions to a Priest, as he is much more educated in these matters than us laity could ever hope to be. This website, http://orthodoxyinamerica.com/ can help you find an Orthodox Church near you, should you ever decide to visit.

The following articles may help answer your questions regarding prayers to the saints:

http://www.forthelife.org/a9.htm
http://www.slocc.com/orthodoxy/saintstheotokos.shtml
http://www.oca.org/FS.NA-Document.asp?SID=4&ID=82
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/saints_a_coniaris.htm

Hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

 

[eoe]

I don't have much to add. Just wanted to say hi and welcome to TAW

Thank you all for your answers. I see that I have a bit more research to do! Not sure when I will get the chance to visit an EO church, since my wife and two kids enjoy our current church (as do I), but I certainly will try to make the effort. Again, thank you!

I will tell yo uthat the Divine Liturgy is an amazing experience. You should absolutely try to go as soon as possible.

 

[Happy Orthodox]

Welcome to TAW!

There is much that I could say about this matter, but I think I better not. It's hard to talk about the Virgin Mary without bringing in a host of Orthodox teachings, and I'm afraid I don't have the correct knowledge and skill in talking about it appropriately. But I can say a few things. Orthodox worship God and only God, and no one is and ever can be worthy of praise that is due to the Lord. Orthodox honor the Saints (or those that are already with God in Heaven), and our Lady Theotokos (or "the one who gave birth to Christ") as the head of all Angels and Saints, being the Mother of God. And also, She is His Mother, and Jesus loves Her. Because She is His Mother, God does many things when She asks. Remember when She asked Him to help in the wedding in Kana of Galilee? Jesus said that His hour didn't come yet, but still He fulfilled Her request. But folks here are right, you learn Orthodoxy through experience and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not by reason of the limited mind. Hope this helps

PS: Kolya's link is an amazing reading!