Questions for staff

[BryanW92]

Mod Hat

Thread has been cleaned again. Please do not debate in this forum if you are not a member.

One leg of Wesley's Quadrilateral is Reason. We discuss things. Sometimes, we even argue. When we have differences in beliefs or opinions, we don't throw the dissenter out of our church. This is one reason why I am a Methodist and not a member of a "believe exactly as we believe, or get out" denomination.

If we all agree on everything, then all we can do is have a bunch of "God is Great" threads, which are good, but not really productive since we can do that on our own or with our own church.

I understand that some denominations don't want any disagreement or questioning of doctrine, but the threads where someone disagrees with our doctrine are the most productive. They are productive because they challenge us to make sure that our own beliefs are correct and then to research why we believe that (other than the "because my pastor said the bible says so" excuse).

Am I the only one who thinks that our Wesleyan theology can handle some dissent and disagreement? Are we mature enough as Christians to have a well-thought debate? Can we argue vigorously, but in Christian Love?

I like reading the very educated responses of our clergy, and some laity, on the WP in response to the people who don't agree with us. I learn from their experience and knowledge. Then, to come in to a thread and see all that wisdom deleted does not help anyone gain insight.

 

[GraceSeeker]

Am I the only one who thinks that our Wesleyan theology can handle some dissent and disagreement? Are we mature enough as Christians to have a well-thought debate? Can we argue vigorously, but in Christian Love?

You're not alone. I also know that there are times when it seems that people are just trolling. And I've noticed that often what starts out as one somehow ends up becoming the other. I don't know how a mod is supposed to know the difference.

Maybe there could be something like a special dispensation that the originator of the thread might be able to grant to allow a "foreign" dissenter to go ahead and express his/her point of view if it was viewed as being a productive conversation and not just antagonisitic pontifications?

 

[GraceSeeker]

Mod Hat

Several posts have been removed from this thread for cleaning. A few were edited. Please remember, posters can not teach or debate in congregational forums where they are not a member. Thanks.

Have any of the deleted or edit comments by those who are members of the WP been preserved? When one puts work into something of this nature, it isn't just to counter the arguments of non-Wesleyans here. It is also just as much to help in the overall education of one another within the WP. If saved, they could be revised, but if not preserved they would be very hard to recreate.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Have any of the deleted or edit comments by those who are members of the WP been preserved? When one puts work into something of this nature, it isn't just to counter the arguments of non-Wesleyans here. It is also just as much to help in the overall education of one another within the WP. If saved, they could be revised, but if not preserved they would be very hard to recreate.

First of all, generally speaking if members have questions about moderator actions they should start a thread in member services or PM the moderator directly.

Generally when cleaning a thread we try to preserve as much of the conversation as possible, doing edits where we can. Unfortunately if a post is in reference to one that is deleted or doesn't make sense in the thread without the quoted post then it has to be deleted as well.

The way to get around this is to not quote or respond to members who will likely have their posts deleted.

 

[circuitrider]

I'll be honest, I like that one of the points of the Congregational sections is for the membership of those groups to be able to discuss the theology of their own general family without every other faith group here being able to jump in and tell us that being a Wesleyan Christian is all wrong.

There are times I want to discuss things with Methodists and other Wesleyans that are specific to our heritage.

If we are spending all our time answering jibes from outside theologies it can keep us from having our discussions. There are other places on this much larger forum set up for denominational and theological debate on a larger scale.

I personally like them being separate.

 

[Joykins]

copied from the other thread:

There's actually a denominational theology forum--if we like we could set up an Ask A Methodist thread there for those who want to debate.

I come to Wesley's Parish for fellowship and edification, not debate.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

I moved the the above comments from their threads into a new thread so that they won't derail the threads they are in.

Threads are cleaned when posts get reported. Staff generally doesn't go around looking for posts to delete. But if we review a report and find issues then we have to take care of them.

I can stick this thread as a reference if you guys would like. Here is the link to member services if you would prefer: http://www.christianforums.com/f883/

I am sorry Bryan for hijacking your post into the OP for this thread. The software will not let me make posts out of order.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

copied from the other thread:

There's actually a denominational theology forum--if we like we could set up an Ask A Methodist thread there for those who want to debate.

I come to Wesley's Parish for fellowship and edification, not debate.

That's a very good idea.

 

[GraceSeeker]

copied from the other thread:

There's actually a denominational theology forum--if we like we could set up an Ask A Methodist thread there for those who want to debate.

I come to Wesley's Parish for fellowship and edification, not debate.

Care to share a link?


But, I'm not sure that satisfies the need that Bryan is asking about. From time to time we get non-Wesleyans who stumble in here to ask a question of a Methodist. Now some are trolls, and I suspect that is a lot of what you would get in the spot you speak of. But others, are like Misty Rock who came here with real questions. We engaged her. And today she is a United Methodist. And if before she becomes a Methodist she asked a few hard questions along the way, so much the better. It forced us to be clearer with regard to our theology, because when we just discuss amongst ourselves there is a lot of code speak that we can allow to cover a lack of genuine thought on some of our topics.

I'm not looking for arguments either. But, if our faith can only stand the casual questioning of fellow Wesleyans, it doesn't say much for our theology.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Our congregational forums are set up to be safe havens for people who want to discuss their theology without having to debate those who don't agree. That's not likely to change. However fellowship and questions from non-members ARE allowed (and always have been). My observation is that posts aren't reported or actioned as long as posters are respectful. Some of the congregationals have subforums for debate. We can look at this if it is something you as a group want. However WP generally does not get the traffic that those forums get so I can not promise that we could get a subforum.

The purpose of this thread really was only to have a place to answer your questions about the posts that were removed when I cleaned the other 2 threads. I understand that you as a group may have some different ideas about the types of discussion that you would like to see in this forum. However if this thread is going to be used to air grievances then I do have to close it up.

 

[Joykins]

Here is a link to the denomination-specific theology forum:

http://www.christianforums.com/f451/

 

[GraceSeeker]

Thanks, Jacks. But that forum says: "A special subforum where a thread starter can restrict threads to replies by members of a particular denomination only to discuss denomination-specific theology." And that isn't any different than what we already have here.

 

[Maid Marie]

I'll be honest, I like that one of the points of the Congregational sections is for the membership of those groups to be able to discuss the theology of their own general family without every other faith group here being able to jump in and tell us that being a Wesleyan Christian is all wrong.

There are times I want to discuss things with Methodists and other Wesleyans that are specific to our heritage.

If we are spending all our time answering jibes from outside theologies it can keep us from having our discussions. There are other places on this much larger forum set up for denominational and theological debate on a larger scale.

I personally like them being separate.

Exactly.

 

[Joykins]

Thanks, Jacks. But that forum says: "A special subforum where a thread starter can restrict threads to replies by members of a particular denomination only to discuss denomination-specific theology." And that isn't any different than what we already have here.

I took it to mean that debate is allowed there in a sense that it generally isn't i the congregation forums.

 

[GraceSeeker]

I took it to mean that debate is allowed there in a sense that it generally isn't i the congregation forums.

We can debate here. If a United Methodist wants to come in here and say that they believe the only valid form of baptism is immersion, they can do that because they are a member of the WP. And then circuitrider and I can try to explain why as United Methodists we think differently on the subject. A Baptist could come in and ask us a couple of more question for information as to why and how we came to that conclusion. But if we convinced the Baptist of the United Methodist understanding of baptism, but the person remained a Baptist for some other reason, that Baptist could not come in here and argue for for the truth of infant baptism against a Wesleyan who was erroneously convinced otherwis because a Baptist is not allowed to teach inside the WP because is not a member of this congregational forum.

I also see this blog as relating to this larger topic. I wonder if anyone else views it as I do?