Questions for SDA?

RC_NewProtestants · Jul 26, 2007

mjona3 said:
Doesn't matter. The point being is that the angel didn't resurrect Him from the dead.

JM

Yes it does matter because so many Adventist think that an angel called Jesus from the tomb. Even you tried to use that idea, only you tried to say that it was just calling out to Jesus not that the angel raised Him. If it had not been part of Adventist beliefs you would have had no reason to even bring it up.

It is actually a huge problem that so many Adventists cannot even tell what is part of the Biblical story and what is additional material from Ellen White.

sentipente · Jul 26, 2007

RC_NewProtestants said:
It is actually a huge problem that so many Adventists cannot even tell what is part of the Biblical story and what is additional material from Ellen White.

Especially now that they have the Clear Word.

JonMiller · Jul 26, 2007

RC_NewProtestants said:
Yes it does matter because so many Adventist think that an angel called Jesus from the tomb. Even you tried to use that idea, only you tried to say that it was just calling out to Jesus not that the angel raised Him. If it had not been part of Adventist beliefs you would have had no reason to even bring it up.

It is actually a huge problem that so many Adventists cannot even tell what is part of the Biblical story and what is additional material from Ellen White.

I haven't read it in a while (that Bible story) while I read DA last year.

JM

sentipente · Jul 26, 2007

mjona3 said:
I haven't read it in a while (that Bible story) while I read DA last year.

JM

You are not doing much for your standing as a scientist.

JonMiller · Jul 26, 2007

Doing just fine as a scientist, as the Bible has nothing to do with science.

My memory was a bit off, which happens when I discuss quantum chromodynamics sometimes also.

JM

sentipente · Jul 26, 2007

mjona3 said:
Doing just fine as a scientist, as the Bible has nothing to do with science.

My memory was a bit off, which happens when I discuss quantum chromodynamics sometimes also.

JM

It's not your memory I am worried about.

sentipente · Jul 26, 2007

mjona3 said:
Doing just fine as a scientist, as the Bible has nothing to do with science.

That's where you are wrong. The Bible has everything to do with science. It is a by-product of science. If humans had not been trying to understand their surroundings they would never have come up with ideas of who controlled what they could not understand.

JonMiller · Jul 26, 2007

I personally beleive that we didn't come up with ideas of true religion. I believe that true reliigon was inspired by God.

The false religions of zeus and the like are examples of what humans come up with. They are attempts to explain the surround universe. Christianity is not. Christianity is not needed to explain why we are here, or why trees are here, or why lightning exists. That is not it's reason of being.

Christianity is about how we can change, how we can become free. It might also be about morality, I am not sure if living a moral life can be properly motivated outside of the framwork of reliigon.

JM

OntheDL · Jul 26, 2007

TrustAndObey said:
Didn't Paul resurrect people too? He wasn't Divine or immortal.

And OTD, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and I really enjoy talking about this without the personal attacks (so maybe we should take this to the Traditional section), but I don't think that we can say that sin and death have forever been defeated if people still sin and die.

Through Christ we will not see the second death, but I know for a fact that good Christian people continue to die daily.

Through Christ we can be forgiven of sin, but I'm not sure in what context you mean that sin was defeated forever? Can you clarify that for me?

Yes Paul was a mere mortal, but the divine power imputed to him resurrected the man.

After the allied forces surrounded Berlin, the fate of Hitler and the Nazi's was sealed. Eventhough there were still many days of hard battle ahead, their defeat was inevitable.

When the men were mocking Christ, had He come down from the cross, the plan of salvation would have failed. But Christ died on the cross, He by the merit of His sacrifice procured our pardon. Thus sin and death were forever defeated.

djconklin · Jul 26, 2007

Especially now that they have the Clear Word.

What is interesting about this is that I never even heard of it till one of the critics of the church brought it up. I have never used it or heard it used in church.

But Christ died on the cross, He by the merit of His sacrifice procured our pardon. Thus sin and death were forever defeated.

Amen to that! Thanks DL.

sentipente · Jul 27, 2007

mjona3 said:
I personally beleive that we didn't come up with ideas of true religion. I believe that true reliigon was inspired by God.

The false religions of zeus and the like are examples of what humans come up with.

Why would humans come up with false religions in honor of deities they had to make up if they had been given information about the true religion?

sentipente · Jul 27, 2007

JM, you seem to have ovelooked the fact that Christianity is a Johnny-come-lately among religions. Further, there is no prophecy in the OT pointing to the rise of Christianity and Jesus showed no desire to form a new religion. It would help if you did not abandon God's greatest gift to you while you are studying matters so intimately related to Him. That is a betrayal.

JonMiller · Jul 27, 2007

Christianity arose from Judaism. You can, we Christians claim, still se ethe same religion being in Judaism. And there was definitely inspiration given to Judaism. I really don't see why the differences in name bother you, and Christ's intention was for the Jews to all follow Him.

But this doesn't really matter. Christianity is right, and the zeus type of religions are wrong. It doesn't matter that Christianity came later. Or even that Judaism came later.

Additionally, I do think that God worked to inspire other people in different places, it just wasn't as much light as the Jews got, and definitely wasn't Christ. Of course, later people would corrupt it (they do this to some extant with Christianity).

People create false religions all the time. I mean, look at L Ron Hubbard.

JM

JonMiller · Jul 27, 2007

Finally, not everyone in earth's history has been inpsired, or had information of the true religion.

JM

sentipente · Jul 27, 2007

Ron Hubbard is evidence against your claim that man was given the true religion from the beginning then chose to create others. Multiple religions is evidence that religion is the result of human effort.

sentipente · Jul 27, 2007

How can you suggest that the Creator gave the early people a little light then gave the Jews more light than He gave the early people and finally gave more complete light to Christians and even more light to Adventists? How can you even think that this characterization represents a supreme Being who created this universe?

JonMiller · Jul 27, 2007

It is obvious that He hasn't given the same thing to everyone. This is described in the parables of the talents, and of the workers of the vinyard.

The important thing is that His mercy is available to everyone.

JM

JonMiller · Jul 27, 2007

sentipente said:
Ron Hubbard is evidence against your claim that man was given the true religion from the beginning then chose to create others. Multiple religions is evidence that religion is the result of human effort.

No he isn't.

And I said that many religions are the result of human effort. Some have another inspiration though.

JM

sentipente · Jul 27, 2007

JM, it is obvious you will not allow your scientific training to have any influence in religious matters. There can be no value in continuing this discussion. I prefer rational exchanges.

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