Questions About Hell

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

FineLinen said:
Questions Without Answers On Hell

Questions Without Answers

As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)

If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?

Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?

As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?

If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)

As "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)

As "love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)

As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)

Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?

If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?

Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

Hell is for persons staying here in these kinds of fallen realities, and that are or were never meant for anything more than that/this, ever, "forever"... They do not get to transcend or ever go or be or exist beyond this like the rest of us do, ever, etc, they were never meant to, etc...

They serve, for the rest of us, only a temporary purpose involving the rest of us here, and were never meant for anything more than ever, etc... Also, they were never really ever truly alive or living to begin with or in the first place, etc...

This is why some cannot be changed or their course cannot ever be changed, etc...

Anyway, that's what hell is...

So, it is described as an eternal tormenting fire or torment, or the continual state of continual weeping and gnashing of teeth, forever, etc... A fire that is continually burning you but does not consume you, etc, "eternal death", etc... They're spirits never leave this place, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Hell is for persons staying here in these kinds of fallen realities, and that are or were never meant for anything more than that/this, ever, "forever"... They do not get to transcend or ever go or be or exist beyond this like the rest of us do, ever, etc, they were never meant to, etc...

They serve, for the rest of us, only a temporary purpose involving the rest of us here, and were never meant for anything more than ever, etc... Also, they were never really ever truly alive or living to begin with or in the first place, etc...

This is why some cannot be changed or their course cannot ever be changed, etc...

Anyway, that's what hell is...

So, it is described as an eternal tormenting fire or torment, or the continual state of continual weeping and gnashing of teeth, forever, etc... A fire that is continually burning you but does not consume you, etc, "eternal death", etc... They're spirits never leave this place, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Realities, like this one, will always exist, fallen ones, that are outside the gates of Heaven, and some people and spirits are only meant for that only, ever, forever, but not for the rest of us that are meant to go beyond it/that or them, and the ones that are not meant for that, are only involved in and for a temporary purpose involving the rest of us that are meant for or to or will go beyond it or that, or this or that, but they (the other ones) will be staying here, in these kinds of realities, forever...

It is like a lake of fire burning with fire and sulfur and ash, a place for the walking dead that were never truly alive in the first place, and were never really ever meant to be ever, etc, (truly alive, etc)... It is a place of eternal torment, full of pain and agony and sorrow and eternal misery and suffering and anguish, forever, eternally, a place of eternal weeping and gnashing of teeth, where peoples anger is forever kindled and fired like and eternal fire where all suffer eternally or are all set ablaze for it, etc, and full of lots and lots of weeping, and the people going back and forth between, forever, etc...

That's why the Bible is full of warnings for people who are living all for this life only and only rewards in this life only, and loving this life only, they will be "getting their reward in full", etc, in the end most especially, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Jamdoc · Nov 28, 2019

For the most part Hell is just complete separation from God. That is the most literal interpretation of it, the thing that no matter what viewpoint you take of what Hell is, whether you're an annihilationist, or believe in a literal lake of fire where people are physically tortured forever, all versions of Hell are separation from God.
God is the source of life, and of joy, so being separated from that could be permanent death like an annihilationist believes, or if their soul is still eternal, just simply being separated from the source of all that's good can be the torture all of itself and cause all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, there doesn't necessarily have to be external torture that God actively administers or allows to be administered by any other entity.
Ultimately separation from God by itself should be enough to tell you that you don't want that to happen to you. All forms of Hell, being completely annihilated, physically burning forever, or just being in empty black space severed from the source of all joy, it's all punishment of an eternal sort.
If I were to have a personal opinion on the matter I'd liked to think it's either annihilation or that last example, just being separated from God, no active torture it's all just being alone and that's torture enough. It's more compassionate anyway. But ultimately that's not my call and not what I want.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 28, 2019

zoidar said:
Rom 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

Sun entered the world, not Adam.

Rom 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

Click to expand...

Many died, not many sinned.

Rom 5:18-19
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Click to expand...

So you believe that just as Adams sin condemned all no matter what they did (don’t read about Enoch or Elijah) just so all men are justified no matter what they believe, right? That would have to follow. If individual choices don’t matter regarding condemnation, it can’t matter for salvation.

Shrewd Manager · Nov 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Realities, like this one, will always exist, fallen ones, that are outside the gates of Heaven, and some people and spirits are only meant for that only, ever, forever, but not for the rest of us that are meant to go beyond it/that or them, and the ones that are not meant for that, are only involved in and for a temporary purpose involving the rest of us that are meant for or to or will go beyond it or that, or this or that, but they (the other ones) will be staying here, in these kinds of realities, forever...

It is like a lake of fire burning with fire and sulfur and ash, a place for the walking dead that were never truly alive in the first place, and were never really ever meant to be ever, etc, (truly alive, etc)... It is a place of eternal torment, full of pain and agony and sorrow and eternal misery and suffering and anguish, forever, eternally, a place of eternal weeping and gnashing of teeth, where peoples anger is forever kindled and fired like and eternal fire where all suffer eternally or are all set ablaze for it, etc, and full of lots and lots of weeping, and the people going back and forth between, forever, etc...

That's why the Bible is full of warnings for people who are living all for this life only and only rewards in this life only, and loving this life only, they will be "getting their reward in full", etc, in the end most especially, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

My, 'getting their reward in full', pretty sinister stuff. They'll keep, those suburban heathen in their McMansions.

The thrice-holy all-powerful God, father of all creation, source of all value, truth, goodness, grace, mercy, wisdom, beauty, faith hope and love decrees... 'Up yours, sinners!'

If you see me laughing, I'm laughing just to keep from crying.

AlexDTX · Nov 28, 2019

RaymondG said:
if it be true

Yet, there are too many plain direct statements of the opposite. Raymond, I know you do not subscribe to the doctrine. I am asking believers in US to answer.

AlexDTX · Nov 28, 2019

martymonster said:
....And which particular question was that?

You quoted my question.
"What is the point in trying to convince Christians that are already saved, this doctrine?"

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
My, 'getting their reward in full', pretty sinister stuff. They'll keep, those suburban heathen in their McMansions.

The thrice-holy all-powerful God, father of all creation, source of all value, truth, goodness, grace, mercy, wisdom, beauty, faith hope and love decrees... 'Up yours, sinners!'

If you see me laughing, I'm laughing just to keep from crying.

They chose it ultimately, they could have chose otherwise and had, even have right now, many, many opportunities to choose otherwise, but they do not, and maybe they can't, because they were never meant to, is a thing I am working on with the Lord right now...

Temporary people/programs only meant for temporary lives and purposes involving the rest of who are not, or are not meant to be that, or be that way, etc...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
They chose it ultimately, they could have chose otherwise and had, even have right now, many, many opportunities to choose otherwise, but they do not, and maybe they can't, because they were never meant to, is a thing I am working on with the Lord right now...

Temporary people/programs only meant for temporary lives and purposes involving the rest of who are not, or are not meant to be that, or be that way, etc...?

God Bless!

This after trying, and trying, and trying some more, to get people to "not sell their souls for the things of this world", or to at least repent and change some of their ways about it, but I'm beginning to come to a revelation that some people are just wholly incapable of change, and mean totally and 100% completely unable, and it has made me think a lot of late, and I've been talking with the Lord about it a lot lately...?

All kinds of things surrounding this line of thought are being discussed between us right now lately...

God Bless!

Shrewd Manager · Nov 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
They chose it ultimately, they could have chose otherwise and had, even have right now, many, many opportunities to choose otherwise, but they do not, and maybe they can't, because they were never meant to, is a thing I am working on with the Lord right now...

Temporary people/programs only meant for temporary lives and purposes involving the rest of who are not, or are not meant to be that, or be that way, etc...?

God Bless!

Ultimately all creation is predestined to salvation. All things restored in Christ, the alpha and omega.

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. (Is 11:6)

If you're right, I don't have a hope. The sum total of my righteousness is a mound of filthy rags next to the absolute perfection of God.

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Ultimately all creation is predestined to salvation. All things restored in Christ, the alpha and omega.

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. (Is 11:6)

So, everyone is ultimately saved no matter what, and no one goes to (or stays in) hell, ever, no matter what...?

Some are predestined for hell, or being or staying here in these kinds of realities and never going beyond them, and some are not...? The big question is "why"...?

Shrewd Manager said:
If you're right, I don't have a hope. The sum total of my righteousness is a mound of filthy rags next to the absolute perfection of God.

All of ours is, our righteousness anyway, but not the one that we choose in Christ, and how He (God) makes us righteous... Now yes God already ultimately knows and predestined "all our choices", but because we do not know, we still have a choice in the matter, and our choice or choices still matter very, very much from our perspective or point of view...

It is ultimately God who wills us to choose and make the right choice or choices, etc, but from our perspective or point of view, we must still will ourselves to make or not make the right or wrong choices, etc, from our perspective or point of view, etc, but it was ultimately God who did it all and not us, etc... But and/or because He will "will" us to "will" or not will, etc in the matters we need to, etc, but our own will is still very much involved and very important from our perspective or point of view, etc...

Why do you think you would have no hope otherwise...?

And I would really like to talk about that last point with you if we could please...?

God Bless!

FineLinen · Nov 28, 2019

AlexDTX said:
You quoted my question.
"What is the point in trying to convince Christians that are already saved, this doctrine?"

Dear Alex: No evangelical fundamentalist can be convinced of anything beyond their scope of our God. Only the Minister of ephphatha can open blind eyes and deaf ears!

Salvation is in the present progressive tense of past present and future.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 28, 2019

martymonster said:
Because he was made of the dust of the ground.

How come neither he nor Eve nor God uses this excuse. In any case, now you blame God for shoddy workmanship. Anything but blame the man in the mirror for the evil deeds the man in the mirror does;

Shrewd Manager · Nov 28, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
So, everyone is ultimately saved no matter what, and no one goes to (or stays in) hell, ever, no matter what...?

Hell and death are primarily spiritual states, perishing for lack of knowledge, the darkness of spiritual blindness. But God can save anyone from their enslavement to sin. And ultimately He will, that's the seal of the covenant at Calvary in holy blood.

The most deserving of salvation are the worst of sinners, those most in need. And most don't know they need it. But the last will be first, and the healthy will discover their need for the doctor.

Neogaia777 said:
Why do you think you would have no hope otherwise...?

As our righteousness is worthless, we depend only on the gifts from above. So if God's grace is withheld, we wither on the spot like a cursed fig, as though the very air we breathe was taken away, no?

To be continued,but past my bedtime, brother.

Neogaia777 · Nov 28, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Hell and death are primarily spiritual states, perishing for lack of knowledge, the darkness of spiritual blindness. But God can save anyone from their enslavement to sin. And ultimately He will, that's the seal of the covenant at Calvary in holy blood.

The most deserving of salvation are the worst of sinners, those most in need. And most don't know they need it. But the last will be first, and the healthy will discover their need for the doctor.

As our righteousness is worthless, we depend only on the gifts from above. So if God's grace is withheld, we wither on the spot like a cursed fig, as though the very air we breathe was taken away, no?

To be continued,but past my bedtime, brother.

OK man, thanks for your response, have a good night and good nights sleep brother.

God Bless!

zoidar · Nov 28, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Sun entered the world, not Adam. Many died, not many sinned.

So you believe that just as Adams sin condemned all no matter what they did (don’t read about Enoch or Elijah) just so all men are justified no matter what they believe, right? That would have to follow. If individual choices don’t matter regarding condemnation, it can’t matter for salvation.

Sun? Sin?

I believe every person is a sinner because of Adam and we are naturally under condemnation. As Paul writes we are saved through Christ righteousness, that is received through faith.

Rom 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

joshua 1 9 · Nov 28, 2019

FineLinen said:
Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

God is a God of absolute perfect and precise Justice. We see this when we see how fine tuned the Universe is. Every indication is that people judge themselves and sentence themselves. We see a lot of that in washington today. As people judge others they will be judged. By their own standard they will be judged. So God is Perfect and Just in all He does.

FineLinen · Nov 28, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
How come neither he nor Eve nor God uses this excuse. In any case, now you blame God for shoddy workmanship. Anything but blame the man in the mirror for the evil deeds the man in the mirror does;

Dear Dorothy: The man in the mirror has really bad genes. Those genes are his as a result of one mans sin.

"For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, in hope."

AlexDTX · Nov 28, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Alex: No evangelical fundamentalist can be convinced of anything beyond their scope of our God. Only the Minister of ephphatha can open blind eyes and deaf ears!

Salvation is in the present progressive tense of past present and future.

Still not answering the question, FL. If " no evangelical fundamentalists can be convinced" why try to convince them?

FineLinen · Nov 28, 2019

AlexDTX said:
Still not answering the question, FL. If " no evangelical fundamentalists can be convinced" why try to convince them?

Dear Alex: Do not be slow. Fundy's are not the one's I am trying to convince, in fact I have zero interest in convincing any of us dorks on anything of the Holy. That is in the dept. of the Holy Spirit. One can only express our Father's word and leave the rest to Him.

"Then opened He their minds that they might understand the Scriptures."

Questions About Hell

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